Making L. reuteri yogurt is really a simple process, but it still trips up some people. Or they don’t understand what we are trying to achieve here, even believing that the benefits we seek can be achieved with conventional yogurt—no, not even close. Or that methods such as prolonged fermentation are unnecessary. So let’s list some of the tripping points to help avoid ending up with a liquid mess that fails to yield all the wonderful benefits of this microbe when restored to your microbiome.
I say “restored” because 96% of people have lost this microbe for a variety of reasons. (Take a look at your bowel flora analysis from Thryve, Viome, or Gut Zoomer, for instance, to see whether you have L. reuteri—you likely do not before consuming the yogurt.) Perhaps your mom lost this microbe and was thereby unable to provide it to you via passage through the birth canal and/or breastfeeding, or perhaps you were delivered by C-section and bottle-fed with little opportunity to obtain it. Or perhaps you took a course—or 5—of antibiotics for ear infections as a kid. Or you have been exposed to glyphosate that, while an herbicide, is also a potent antibiotic that kills off healthy microbial species. There are many reasons that the modern microbiome has been disrupted in the majority, perhaps all of us.
Recall that we ferment for an extended period of time: 36 hours, not the 4 hours of conventional yogurt making. L. reuteri doubles (1 microbe becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, etc.) every 3 hours at 100 degrees F. Fermenting for 36 hours therefore permits 12 doublings, rather than the single doubling permitted by brief conventional fermentation. This is why we obtain greater than 200 billion CFUs (bacterial counts) per 1/2-cup serving. (Our last flow cytometry run yielded a live count of 262 billion.) We also add prebiotic fibers to the fermenting mix to both ensure greater microbial numbers, as well as thicken the end-result.
I have made well over 100 batches without a single failure, so I know that you can do it, too. And, if you join the discussions in our Undoctored Inner Circle website, you can add a number of other interesting fermentation projects that achieve effects such as shrinking your waist, deepening sleep, heightening your immune response, accelerating recovery after strenuous exercise, and reducing arthritis pain.
L. reuteri yogurt-making “Do’s”:
- Do choose dairy with no added ingredients, i.e., no added gellan gum, xanthan gum, carrageenan, etc. as this will cause too much separation into curds and whey.
- Do clean your utensils and jars/bowls with hot soapy water to minimize contaminants. Some people even heat their materials, e.g., in the oven, to kill any contaminants.
- Do begin by making a slurry of a couple tablespoons of yogurt from a prior batch or other source of bacteria (e.g, crushed Gastrus tablets, contents of one Osfortis capsule), a couple tablespoons of half-and-half or other liquid, 1-2 tablespoons prebiotic fiber; mix well. Only then add the remaining half-and-half. This prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber.
- Do indeed ferment for 36 hours—no more, no less. The last 3 hours, for example, doubles the number of microbes, e.g., 130 billion becomes 260 billion—a considerable jump. Don’t listen to conventional yogurt makers who confuse what we are doing here with conventional yogurt-making: two very different things. (We are not actually making “yogurt” by the standard FDA definition; we are simply fermenting dairy–but it looks and tastes like yogurt so we call it “yogurt” even though it is much more powerful.) Ferment longer than 36 hours and the rate of microbial death begins to exceed the numbers obtained via doublings (likely due to competition for resources) and you can actually obtain fewer bacteria. Prolonged fermentation also maximally converts the lactose to lactic acid; people with lactose intolerance can typically eat the yogurt without any adverse effect. The drop in pH to 3.5, not the 10-fold less acidic pH of 4.5 of conventional yogurt, means that the casein beta A1 is at least partially denatured, disabling some of its immune-stimulating potential.
- Do verify the temperature of whatever device you are using to maintain the fermenting temperature, as not all devices are accurate. Also, some devices are pre-set for yogurt making but are set too high; if the device heats to 112 degrees F, for instance, it will kill L. reuteri, since this species dies starting at 109 degrees F or higher. Ideally, choose a fermenting device (yogurt maker, sous vide device, Instant Pot, etc.) that allows you to vary the temperature, as well as the time.
- Do store your yogurt in the refrigerator where it is generally fine for up to 4 weeks. You can also freeze the yogurt without killing the microbes. (It actually makes a delicious frozen yogurt; here’s a simple recipe for a Chocolate Frozen Yogurt, as shown in the photo above.)
- Do cover your yogurt lightly during fermentation to minimize fungal contamination, e.g., plastic wrap or a loosely-fitting lid.
L. reuteri yogurt-making “Don’ts”:
- Don’t pre-heat. If you choose a pasteurized dairy product, there is no need for pre-heating. Conventional yogurt-makers pre-heat because they typically start with a reduced fat milk and pre-heating improves the texture and mouthfeel of the end-result. We start with half-and-half with around 18% milk fat that yields a wonderful texture and mouthfeel—no need to pre-heat.
- Don’t stir the mixture while it is fermenting, as this increases separation.
- Don’t use a blender with your yogurt, as this kills the living microbes. While you may still obtain the oxytocin-provoking effect, you lose L. reuteri’s probiotic properties.
- Don’t put your fermentation setup near an air vent, as the high volume of air will cause fungal contamination.
- Don’t heat your end-result, i.e., don’t heat on a stove or stir into a hot mixture, as this kills the microbes.
I like to pour off the liquid whey after removing some of the curds, as this reduces whey’s potential to trigger insulin. Even better, filter through a coffee filter or cheesecloth placed into a colander; place the setup into a large bowl or pan and allow the whey to drip out over 4-6 hours, lightly covered. This yields a thicker Greek-style yogurt.
By the way, I’ve written a new book about the intestinal microbiome that goes far beyond any other book before it, packed with prescriptive strategies to achieve all sorts of health effects. Stay tuned. In the meantime, be sure to go wherever you get your podcasts and look for my new podcast, Defiant Health. (Available on Stitcher, Podchaser, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeart Radio, and Podcast Addict. Waiting for approval on Pandora, Apple Podcasts, and a few others—yes, it’s that new.)
Does anyone know of the side effects with such a high amount of L. reuteri CFU in the yogurt ? 1/2-cup serving size has more then 1000 times more CFU then what BioGaia recommends.
Companies like BioGaia will perform clinical trials to make sure the CFU they are recommending are safe and does not cause any side effects down the line ( say 10 or 15 years later)
Ocetosin tends to naturally slow down as you grow old and I am sure there is some reason for this, after all the human body is build smart but boosting this with reuteri as you age, will it cause any damage to organs.
If there are already discussion on this topic please share Dr Davis views
Nasser Siddiqui wrote: «Does anyone know of the side effects with such a high amount of L. reuteri CFU in the yogurt ?»
You might be the first person to ask on any of the blogs, or in the subscription forum. I don’t recall seeing any adverse reactions raised, other than perhaps the occasional person not being happy with specific dream content where vivid dreams have been restored. Dr. Davis has suggested that consumption in late stage pregnancy might not be wise. I’ve personally been making one or another of the program progurts for years now, and nothing has raised an eyebrow.
re: «1/2-cup serving size has more then 1000 times more CFU then what BioGaia recommends.»
Keep in mind that the point of the recipes is the CFUs, and not yogurt per se. If the product you have in mind is Gastrus®, note that BioGaia® also says of their product “Excessive consumption may have a laxative effect due to the content of sweetener in the product.”. The non-microbial ingredients in the tablets are irrelevant after the first batch of yogurt. Biogaia may also only have tested doses to clinical effect for a specific benefit (that might not include oxytocin provocation, bacteriocins, etc). If they tested in rodents to determine Tolerable Upper Limit (of just the CFUs), I’ve not seen that data.
Biogaia also has the usual merchandising tension of needing to recover investment and have an on-going business model. If it were possible for them to make a take-once preparation, their shareholders would freak out if they did.
re: «Companies like BioGaia will perform clinical trials to make sure the CFU they are recommending are safe and does not cause any side effects down the line ( say 10 or 15 years later)»
Well, they can’t know that for humans, because the product hasn’t been around that long. They may or may not have performed lifetime outcome studies in their rodent models. Dr. Davis keeps an eye on the matter, for example: Have We Discovered the Fountain of Youth?
re: «Ocetosin tends to naturally slow down as you grow old and I am sure there is some reason for this, after all the human body is build smart but boosting this with reuteri as you age, will it cause any damage to organs.»
In the modern settler populations, there are various reasons for oxytocin decline, and the majority are non-ancestral. But even on a pessimistic evolutionary view, Mother Nature™ doesn’t much care about us one way or the other once we reach about twice reproductive age. So if any of the damaging don’t-cares can be beaten back by simple steps, you can either choose to address them, or brighten some Malthusian’s day.
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What should I look out for that implies failure? I’m concerned that my L. Reuteri coconut batch temp was around 90 at times and up to 110 at other times. Also, what does contamination look or smell like?
Tracey Baca wrote: «What should I look out for that implies failure?»
Here are some general tips.
re: «I’m concerned that my L. Reuteri coconut batch temp was around 90 at times and up to 110 at other times.»
The low temp just slows growth (but invites contamination). That 110°F might have caused some die-off. I get nervous if the temps gets out of an approximate 96-106°F range.
re: «Also, what does contamination look or smell like?»
Pink or orange spots. Black spots, and of course obvious mold growth. Smell I can’t guess about.
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Had very good luck making my first batch with an Instant Pot — Used 2 quarts of grassfed organic milk, a couple of teaspoons of inulin, and about 10 L.R. tablets crushed up. Did heat the milk firs.t and then used yogurt setting at “normal” temperature, which tests at about 105 degrees Would it hurt to go to “low,” which seems to be about 95 degrees?
I needed to stop yogurt after 30 hours (needed to leave house unexpectedly for rest of day) but everything looked good – poured off about 2 cups of liquid, which left behind yogurt that was soft but pretty much in one piece.
It was quite tasty – not too tangy – I’ll saved some yogurt and whey in a covered glass container and will use this mix as a starter.
Enjoyed Dr. Davis’s book on the gut health and am happy to mix this yogurt into my diet.
FYI I am 64 yo male in what I think is god health – want to stay that way.
Daniel Sherman wrote: «Did heat the milk firs.t…»
To what temperature and for how long? And what was the temp when the L.r. was added?
re: «…then used yogurt setting at “normal” temperature, which tests at about 105 degrees Would it hurt to go to “low,” which seems to be about 95 degrees?»
Have you verified either of those temps by using a water-only ‘batch”? If so, I’d be inclined to use the 105°F setting, rather than the 95, to discourage unwanted microbes.
re: «I needed to stop yogurt after 30 hours…»
If I found myself in that situation, I’d tend to run long. I used to routinely run my L.r. batches to 48h, and accidentally to 54h, so the recipe is tolerant of over-time.
re: «I’ll saved some yogurt and whey in a covered glass container and will use this mix as a starter.»
It can be saved indefinitely for starter use by freezing, and ice-cube form might be ideal, as one cube starts one quart.
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Did test Instant pot temps with water bath with reliable thermometer.
Did the initial hearing to 180 and then waited until milk settled at 105.
Had very good experience with second batch using few tablespoons from first batch, inulin, and 3 crushed LR tablets – yogurt came out very firm with good taste.
Looks like instant pot (small one at 3 quarts) works well here.
Daniel Sherman wrote: «Had very good experience with second batch using few tablespoons from first batch, inulin, and 3 crushed LR tablets…»
Although I experimented with re-inoculation years ago, I no longer recommend it. If the process needs more bugs, you need to start over. And the tabs add a trivial number of CFUs compared to what’s in even a tbsp of a prior batch of progurt.
So adding more tabs is a waste of money, and definitely won’t fix any instances of contamination by unwanted species.
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I am having trouble getting my “yogurt” to be the right consistency. I purchased a starter culture from Cultured Food Life by Cutting Edge Cultures after hearing Dr. Davis on Donna Schwenk’s podcast. I used that culture with 2 tablespoons potato starch and a quart of half & half in a yogurt maker set to 100 degrees for 36 hours for my first batch. It completely separated into curds & whey. I’ve made 3 subsequent batches; the first subsequent batch I used 2 tbs of the whey to culture, the next I again tried 2 tbs, the last I used 1 tbs. They have all completely separated into curds & whey. Do you have any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Whitney Benefield wrote: «I am having trouble getting my “yogurt” to be the right consistency.»
What recipe?
re: «…starter culture from Cultured Food Life by Cutting Edge Cultures…»
What culture?
The CEC Yogurt Plus starter?
If so, the recipe you are using (which is for Biogaia® Gastrus® L.reuteri strains alone), is not the same as the basic recipe that CEC has on their page: no starch, 100°F-110°F, 6-8 hours. The CEC recipe is going to make a yogurt, and not a progurt, so to speak. Whether or not their cultures can be used in a 36h ferment is not something I’d have any guesses about.
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Bob, Thanks for replying so quickly. I used the CEC LR Superfood Starter which can be found here: https://cuttingedgecultures.com/lr-superfood/ The recipe I used is included with the culture, but is the same recipe that Dr. Davis uses. Maybe I just need to regroup and purchase the tablets. I had not heard of Dr. Davis before I found him through Donna’s podcast. So I guess I’m coming at this from a different direction! I have since read the Wheat Belly book and started that journey and am starting the Super Gut book now.
Whitney Benefield wrote: «I used the CEC LR Superfood Starter…»
Ah, thanks; Lactobacillus reuteri {possibly ATCC} SD-5865, CFUs per portion not so far discovered — I have never tried that myself, and don’t recall seeing any discussions by people who have tried it in a 36h recipe, so I don’t know what to predict in terms of either resulting consistency or physiologic effects.
The lack of CFU info in particular doesn’t allow me to even guess on the likelihood of ‘first batch syndrome’.
re: «I have since read the Wheat Belly book…»
Was that the original 2011 book, or the 2019 Revised & Expanded?
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It was the 2019 Revised & Expanded. I thought I’d start there and work my way up :) I think I’m going to get the Biogaia® Gastrus® and try that. I’ve made too much curds & whey for my liking.
I rotate making 1 qt. Bacillus coagulans and 1 qt. Lactobacillus reuteri from the whey strained from each previous batch. Things have been going very well and I appreciate all I have learned so far! I’d like to know if it is OK to combine the two yogurts in the same container for refrigeration?
Lisa Killingsworth wrote: «I’d like to know if it is OK to combine the two yogurts in the same container for refrigeration?»
For consumption, in general, yes.
‘For consumption’: implying that you wouldn’t use arbitrary blends as starter for future batches, for a number of reasons.
‘In general’: because some of the strains being explored in the program express more bacteriocins than others, and might suppress the benefits of the other strain(s) present.
As it happens, Coagulans & Reuteri do coexist in the SIBO yogurt blend, for which a bargain temperature has been worked out, and relative population drift over a very few generations is not thought to be an issue. So mixing those two, particularly post-ferment, is not likely a problem.
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I’m vegan so no dairy. I’ve tried making this x2 with no success.
First time:
Organic cane sugar
Inulin
2 can coconut milk
BioGastrus tablets crushed
Ferment 36 hours
Pure liquid, awful smell, afraid to taste
2nd time
2 cans coconut cream
1can coconut milk
Inulin
Organic cane sugar
BioGastrus tablets
Ferment 30 hours
Pure liquid, very little smell, and sweet
Any thoughts or comments appreciated. Thank you.
Therese Sanders wrote: «…so no dairy.»
There are several reasons why anyone might be avoiding dairy, which is why the coconut milk versions of the recipes have been in development. The Inner Circle site recipe has changed several times, and is presently using a common coconut milk base with [non-hydrolyzed] guar gum and specific preparation (requiring a stick blender).
This hasn’t been posted to the Blog that I recall. Here’s an earlier variation:
2019-09-06: Making L. reuteri yogurt with coconut milk — that is no longer the current recommendation — and which illuminates the challenge of posting developmental recipes to the blog, as the older articles don’t get updated. (and I haven’t personally tried making non-dairy yogurt in several years now)
I’m not sure what Dr. Davis might have planned for a blog update on non-dairy yogurts. While I wander off and make inquiries on that, let me get more insight on the context…
re: «I’m vegan…»
The possible benefits of these exploratory yogurts rest on a foundation of the core program, which is challenging to do on a vegan diet. For anyone needing to assess their status, the lab markers which there are specific program targets are found here.
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In Dr. Davis recipe there are three ingredients, prebiotic fiber starter tabs or 2 tablespoons of yogurt whey from previous batch in a quart of half-and-half or coconut milk. It did not say in the recipe to add sugar. I think that is your problem …why don’t you try making it again with a quart of coconut milk without sugar you can always add sweet drops once fermentation is done.
Danielle Rigney wrote: «…why don’t you try making it again with a quart of coconut milk without sugar you can always add sweet drops once fermentation is done.»
One of the challenges with coconut milk/cream-based recipes is that these dairy substitutes don’t contain enough simple carbohydrate for the bacteria to metabolize to the desired degree. So the coconut recipes in development have lately been adding actual sucrose (table sugar; glucose+fructose).
It’s not to sweeten the product, as the sugar is expected to be gone at the conclusion of the fermentation. Indeed, it’s mostly turned into short-chain fatty acids, which confer a tangy taste, and not a sweet one.
Starting from tablets also has the challenge that it’s actually not all that many CFUs. Batches started with saved yogurt get a much firmer head start, so to speak.
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When is the ideal time to separate the whey from the curds?
While it is still warm or can it be done anytime.
Do you need to separate with a cheese cloth or coffee filter?
Can I just pour it out?
Is it a preference?
Danielle Rigney wrote: «When is the ideal time to separate the whey from the curds?
While it is still warm or can it be done anytime.»
Most people do it right away, while the batch is still warm.
re: «Do you need to separate with a cheese cloth or coffee filter?»
Cheese cloth is generally preferred. A coffee filter is apt to take way too long (or even clog & stop). A typical not-too-fine mesh strainer might also suffice.
re: «Can I just pour it out?»
Yep. My production batches don’t have enough to bother with. Initial batches do, but in my routine, most of such a batch ends up in ice cube trays for use as future starter. If making the yogurt in a larger pot, using a perforated spoon or scoop to transfer it to the storage containers might suffice.
re: «Is it a preference?»
Yes & no. For someone with a known whey sensitivity, or having encountered a weight loss stall, reducing whey intake is worthwhile
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Hello! My sister and I have been making reuteri yougurt for a month now, eating a little more than half a cup a day. We haven’t experienced any of the benefits, especially more love, patience and empathy for our fellow man (the one we needed most!).
We bought a sous vide unit for precise temperature, ferment for 36 hours, started with gastrus tablets, then used some yogurt from current batch for next batch, use the inulin you recommended and half and half with no other ingredients. I whisk slowly to make a slurry before adding the rest of the liquid.
I follow the directions explicitly and get a yogurt (not one that stands up like butter as doc talks about), but how do we know it is reuteri yogurt? Why aren’t we seeing any of the benefits?
Thanks so much for your insight,
Val
Valiegirl wrote: «I follow the directions explicitly and get a yogurt (not one that stands up like butter as doc talks about), but how do we know it is reuteri yogurt?»
See if there are any clues in my checklists.
As you can see from that article, my personal process varies a bit. The resulting product has a consistency somewhere between whipped cream and whipped butter.
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My yogurt at 24 hrs is usually quite firm so I stop….. Will the bacteria continue to multiply and have food to eat if I go to 36 hours?
Kirkinportland wrote: «My yogurt at 24 hrs is usually quite firm so I stop….. Will the bacteria continue to multiply and have food to eat if I go to 36 hours?»
Answered where asked earlier.
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I vaguely recall Dr Davis addressing breast cancer & the yogurt. Can someone clarify if the yogurt is recommended for a BC survivor?
Rebecca Kennedy wrote: «I vaguely recall Dr Davis addressing breast cancer & the yogurt.»
You recall correctly:
2018-06: Who should NOT do the L. reuteri yogurt?
as amended:
2018-11: I was wrong: Young people SHOULD obtain L. reuteri
re: «Can someone clarify if the yogurt is recommended for a BC survivor?»
Was it ER+ BC?
And in any event what wider diet & lifestyle was adopted to reduce on-going risk generally?
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Can I use only cream or has to be half and half? Once the process finishes,, how much yogurt did you end up with? Because I used a quart of half and half and ended up with about 1.5 cups og greek style yogurt.
Also my yogurt device is a crockpot express brand and only says low or high for temperature, it doesn’t say how many F it uses :(
mrojas_76 wrote: «Can I use only cream or has to be half and half?»
It appears that the lactose is lower in heavy cream vs. H&H or full-fat milk. Check the container Nutrition Facts. If I wanted to try using cream only, I’d be tempted, as needed, to add some unmodified potato starch to make the net carbs equivalent to H&H. But frankly, when I can’t find suitable H&H, I just use half cream + half milk.
re: «Once the process finishes,, how much yogurt did you end up with?»
Well, with my current process (using 2 thawed ice cube’s worth of saved frozen yogurt or whey, per quart, as starter), I’m getting almost zero whey to drain off. My impression is that volume of the resulting product is slightly higher than the starting amount + starter, as there’s usually more than I expect in the brew pot after filling the final storage jars.
re: «Also my yogurt device is a crockpot express brand and only says low or high for temperature, it doesn’t say how many F it uses :(»
Run it for a while with just water, and a probe thermometer. It’s really worth knowing how it behaves. We ended up abandoning the not-so-smart-pot we originally bought for making yogurt, because the “ygrt” temp was too high, too unstable, and had hot spots near the heating elements (which is a real problem in cold-start).
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