Making yogurt out of Lactobacillus reuteri is really a simple, straightforward process. But some people get tripped up on the details, lamenting the thin, sour, or discolored end-result they obtain.
One of the biggest changes is that I no longer recommend the BioGaia Gastrus product. While it served us well in the beginning, the process is easier with a product that I introduced: MyReuteri that provides 10 or 20 billion CFUs (you have a choice of a 10 or a 20 billion count product)—no more need to crush tablets. We have subjected this strain to both animal and human testing; DNA sequencing is in the works. The contents of one capsule is more than sufficient to get started.
So here is the simple recipe, step-by-step to minimize your potential for making mistakes. I have made >100 batches with not a single failure. You can do this, too.
Why do this? Well, if you are new to this conversation, you will be excited to know that the yogurt is really not about yogurt, as conventional yogurts achieve none of these effects. This “yogurt” fermented with Lactobacillus reuteri achieves effects that include:
- Smoothing of skin wrinkles due to an explosion of dermal collagen
- Restoration of youthful musculature—This is a major health advantage in that it increases metabolic rate, giving you improved control over weight; protection from falls, fractures, frailty. (This is in contrast to the awful GLP-1 agonist drugs that cause significant muscle loss.)
- Accelerated healing
- Reduced appetite, the so-called “anorexigenic” effect—food still tastes good, but you are almost completely indifferent to temptation
- Increased testosterone in men
- Increased libido
- Preservation of bone density—Obtaining L. reuteri is one of the most important steps you can take to prevent osteoporosis
- Deeper sleep—About half the people restoring L. reuteri experience this effect.
- Increased empathy and desire for connectedness with other people
- Probiotic effects that may include prevention of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO
The majority of benefits are a result of L. reuteri‘s ability to provoke hypothalamic release of oxytocin, a hormone that is proving to be the key to substantial age-reversingl and health effects. Other benefits derive from this microbe’s ability to colonize the entire length of the small intestine (very unusual) and produce bacteriocins, natural antibiotics effective in killing fecal microbial species such as those that have ascended from the colon in SIBO. (L. reuteri is therefore one of the principal ingredients in my recipe for SIBO Yogurt.)
You will need:
–Glass or ceramic bowl or other vessel large enough to hold at least one quart of liquid
–1-2 tablespoons of inulin
–Starter: 1 capsule of MyReuteri. For subsequent batches, use 2 tablespoons previous batch of L. reuteri yogurt (whey or curds or mixture of both)
–1 quart of half-and-half or other liquid (to make with coconut milk, several additional steps and ingredients are required)
–Some method of maintaining at 100 degrees F
Yields: Around 8 one-half-cup servings
Make sure your bowl and utensils are clean after washing with hot soap and water:
Add 1-2 level tablespoons of inulin:
Open the capsule of MyReuteri and pour into the bowl. Once you have made your first batch, make subsequent batches with two tablespoons of the prior batch, rather than capsule contents; it can be any mixture of whey or solid curds, as both contain L. reuteri.
Add a little, e.g., 2 tablespoons, of your choice of dairy; I used organic half-and-half, as this yields the best texture (and, of course, we NEVER limit fat in my programs). Make a slurry by stirring; this prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber. (Whole milk—NEVER low- or non-fat—yields a thinner end result, while cream yields something close to butter, too thick for my taste.)
Stir in remainder of half-and-half or other liquid:
Cover lightly with plastic wrap or other means. Ferment by maintaining at 100°F for 36 hours. We use prolonged fermentation—far longer than the 6 or so hours used to produce commercial yogurts—to achieve super-duper high bacterial counts. The addition of prebiotic fiber yields even higher bacterial counts. Our many flow cytometry counts of microbes in the yogurt have revealed that we achieve hundreds of billions of microbes per 1/2-cup (120 ml) serving.
I used a basin-type sous vide device, but you can use a stick sous vide, yogurt maker with adjustable temperature control, or Instant Pot. (Just be careful with the Instant Pot or yogurt makers without adjustable temperature, as they are set to be compatible with conventional yogurt microorganisms that are more heat-tolerant, using temperatures that can kill L. reuteri; if your device heats to 110 degrees F or higher, it will likely kill L. reuteri and you should find an alternative means of heating. If in doubt, turn on your device for 20-30 minutes and measure the temperature reached with a thermometer first before you ruin a batch.) Make sure to keep your materials out of the way of fans, heating/cooling vents, or other sources of air contamination.
The end-result for me is rich, thick, and delicious, better tasting—and with far higher probiotic bacterial counts—than anything you can buy in a store. Once refrigerated, the “yogurt” is so thick that it can stand upright on a plate:
Serve with fresh or frozen berries, grainless granola, squirt of liquid stevia, or your choice of fruit or natural sweetener.
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I made L Reuteri LRDR using coconut milk, and the starter was from in drdavisinfinitehealth website.
It was fine for about 20 hours. When I checked about 6 hours later, there was a pink formation on the yogurt, and I had to throw it away. Not sure what I should differently
– Sterilize / ensure all utensils used in the process is immersed in boiling water?
– Ferment for 24 hours instead of 36 hours?
Also, separately I store the L Reuteri yogurt starter unopened pouches in the fridge. Should this be in freezer?
I can’t find any instructions about how to store Mercola L Gasseri. Should this be in the refrigerator or freezer?
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «I made L Reuteri LRDR using coconut milk,…»
What recipe?
The standard dairy-base recipe cannot be used, and the coconut-base recipe has varied over the years.
re: «…and the starter was from in drdavisinfinitehealth website.»
The drdavisinfinitehealth site doesn’t sell anything other than subscriptions to the Blog or Inner Circle. It links to various sites that do sell physical products. So I presume you mean the Oxiceutics™ site, and if not, more info would be needed about the starter and how obtained.
re: «It was fine for about 20 hours.»
For reference, the current coconut-based recipe calls for 48 hours. Fermenting for less than 24hr is not going to work.
re: «When I checked about 6 hours later, there was a pink formation on the yogurt, and I had to throw it away.»
That’s most likely a yeast or fungus. I have not made any coconut-base yogurt in years (and it was a different recipe then), so have no recent experience. The 2019 recipe on the blog is not current.
Using either the Super Gut (book) or Inner Circle site recipe, one modification I would make is to whisk the inulin in prior to the preheat/cooldown step, to minimize low-temp contaminants.
re: «Also, separately I store the L Reuteri yogurt starter unopened pouches in the fridge. Should this be in freezer? … I can’t find any instructions about how to store Mercola L Gasseri. Should this be in the refrigerator or freezer?»
In general bacterial cultures can be frozen, and that’s where I keep mine, along with saved-starter ice cubes from them. After all, the reference samples at the Type Culture Collections are stored in liquid nitrogen (LNO₂: 77°K, −195.8°C, −320°F)
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I used this starter culture: https://drdavisinfinitehealth.com/product/myreuteri-l-reuteri-starter-culture-sachet/. Yes, this page is linked to Oxiceutics™ site.
Prebiotics: Each sachet includes FOS along with L Reuteri. So, I won’t be able to whisk the inulin/FOS in prior to the preheat/cooldown step. However, next time, I will buy the capsules instead of starter culture sachets.
I was planning to make this yogurt with dairy (for others), but I still won’t be able to whisk inulin prior to preheat/cooldown step. Looks like I should buy the capsules now to follow the new recipe?
Sugar: I checked the recipe in Super Gut, realized that I had not added sugar for this batch. Will make sure to do that next time. L Reuteri didn’t have enough food to multiply, I guess, and that left room for other yeast/bacteria to thrive.
Bacterial probiotics storage: I will store L Gasseri and B Subtlis in freezer, and L Reuteri starter sachets in refrigerator since it has FOS.
I have recipe from the book published in 2022.
Please confirm that apart from that one step (add inulin before preheat/cooldown), I can follow the same recipe.
Also, I will use agar agar instead of guar gum
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «Each sachet includes FOS along with L Reuteri.»
If you are using the Oxiceutics™ MyReuteri™ starter sachets, purchased directly from Oxi’, the inulin in them pretty much rules out inulin contamination. It’s as close to sterile as current market and regulatory factors permit, so would not need to be added pre-heat-cycle.
re: «Sugar: I checked the recipe in Super Gut, realized that I had not added sugar for this batch.»
The coconut milk or cream does not contain enough simple carbohydrate substrate for the reuteri, so trying again with that is worthwhile.
re: «Also, I will use agar agar instead of guar gum»
What product is that? Lab agar may not necessarily be food-safe.
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This is the product; https://foodsalive.com/products/agar-powder-organic
Description: Derived from seaweed, red algae, found in salt water, this pale, fine-ground powder is a colorless and tasteless vegan gelling agent also known as Kanten, a Japanese gelatin. It can be used in many recipes as a vegan substitute for gelatin, cornstarch, xanthan gum, guar gum, and arrowroot powder to produce a desired texture.
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «foods alive® organic agar agar powder»
If agar is program-compatible, that looks like a suitable product. Dr. Davis is aware of agar, but hasn’t commented one way or the other. It’s not mentioned in any of the books, nor in any program assets on the Inner Circle site.
The problem is that I don’t know that it is compatible with enlightened ancestral nutrition (and the sugar-laden recipe on the package suggests that the brand is pretty clueless about actual health).
The main question is what emulsifying properties it might have, and how much of a threat it could be to the gut mucosa.
I’m also unclear on the MAC (prebiotic) fraction of the fiber. The NF panel’s “Dietary Fiber <3g” for a “Serving size 3g”, adds to the puzzle.
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In my current diet, am supposed to avoid guar gum. Is there a vegan alternative to guar gum?
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «In my current diet…»
What diet would that be?
Any answers that I provide, of course, are in the context of the Infinite Health program recommendations, as detailed in the 2014 and later books.
re: «…am supposed to avoid guar gum.»
Why would that be?
While it took some years for guar to be accepted by the program, I’m not seeing any particular issues that some people might need to avoid. It’s a plant-based MAC, so the following is puzzling…
re: «Is there a vegan alternative to guar gum?»
Guar aside, if you are following a vegetarian or vegan diet, be sure to see: Doing Infinite Health as Vegetarian for additional deficiencies to mind.
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Am avoiding guar gum as it causes bloating and digestive discomfort
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «Am avoiding guar gum as it causes bloating and digestive discomfort»
When a MAC does that, it’s virtually diagnostic, particularly if the response happens in the first 90 minutes or so after consumption.
If due to SIBO (as is likely), the fix is to correct the SIBO. In the meantime, using smaller portion sizes can help. But expect similar issues with other MACs until gut is re-optimized.
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ok, will try guar gum. Worries me a bit as I have to take care of other variables like histamine load i.e I want to be sure of the variables that are causing symptoms at any point in time.
S Boulardii helped a lot (no diarrhea in just 3 days!) but led to constant body pain after 10 days. While hypothesis of gut dysbiosis seems to be correct, I need to balance the dose with ability to clear the histamine load.
Now, if I introduce L Reuteri with a new variable, I won’t know what’s leading to certain symptoms.
Am not planning start consuming L Reuteri immediately. Am taking it slow. If there’s any article in the blog/website that might help, please share it
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «…will try guar gum. Worries me a bit as I have to take care of other variables like histamine…»
On the blog: Histamine intolerance: It’s just SIBO
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Completely agree that SIBO leads to high histamine. Please let me know if there are any pointers on how to manage this overload
Kavitha Mailengi wrote: «Completely agree that SIBO leads to high histamine. Please let me know if there are any pointers on how to manage this overload»
I haven’t turned up anything beyond:
☐ use smaller portions of provocative foods, while also
☐ working on addressing the root cause, usually SIBO.
While DAO-inhibiting drugs appear to be available, they may not be a wise idea.
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Buenas tardes, estoy en Argentina. Quisiera acceder al probiótico para poder hacer mi yogurt. Donde puedo conseguir este recomendado, o cual otro pudiera encontrar que me sea util. Muchas gracias!!
Soledad Coco wrote: «Buenas tardes, estoy en Argentina. Quisiera acceder al probiótico para poder hacer mi yogurt. Donde puedo conseguir este recomendado, o cual otro pudiera encontrar que me sea util. Muchas gracias!!»
Web Translation: “Good afternoon, I’m in Argentina. I’d like to get a probiotic to make my yogurt. Where can I find this recommended one, or any other that might be useful? Thank you very much!”
Bob: The order summary page at Oxiceutics™ has Argentina populated on the pull-down for Country/Region, but I don’t actually know that they can ship there, or what customs/duties complications might arise.
They have an email address on their FAQ page for export questions, at
Do you ship internationally? +
Web Spanish: “La página de resumen de pedidos en Oxiceutics™ tiene a Argentina indicado en el menú desplegable de País/Región, pero en realidad no sé si pueden enviar allí ni qué complicaciones aduaneras/aranceles podrían surgir.
Tienen una dirección de correo electrónico en su página de preguntas frecuentes para preguntas sobre exportación, en
Do you ship internationally? +”
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Hello,
Can I make this yoghurt with Allulose?
Kata Bergsmann wrote: «Can I make this yoghurt with Allulose?»
You might need to refine the question.
Can you sweeten it with allulose after it’s made?
Yes.
Can you add allulose pre-ferment?
Unknown; maybe.
Can you use allulose instead of inulin?
Unknown; maybe not.
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Just to share my success:
Oxiceutics MyReuteri L reuteri aka OXI and Yakult L paracasei strain Shirota generation 2 from starter batch #56
https://www.reddit.com/r/ReuteriYogurt/comments/1o9w3qm/batch_58_oxiceutics_myreuteri_and_yakult_second/
Mercola Bioslim L gasseri aka LGAS and multi-culture Toniiq L reuteri + Stonyfield Unflavored Organic Greek Yogurt aka TONSTO generation 1 from capsules
https://www.reddit.com/r/ReuteriYogurt/comments/1o46wou/batch_57_toniiq_l_reuteri_and_mercola_bioslim_l/
Why specifically inulin?
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «Why specifically inulin?»
If that question was in reply to another Comment, it got disconnected.
Can you provide some context for the question?
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Why specifically inulin versus some other complex sugar? Somewhere it was suggested that potato starch would also do, but I’m seeing people who swear by just table sugar.
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «Why specifically inulin versus some other complex sugar?»
I’m not sure what criteria Dr. Davis used when originally selecting it, but it does have these interesting properties:
☑ inulin is a fructan or fructooligosaccharide, a fructose polymer
☑ inulin dissolves in liquids nicely, so gets uniformly distributed
☑ L. reuteri will metabolize it, but it is dramatically less favored vs. lactose
☑ so they consume the lactose first, very likely all of it
☑ at which point they turn to the inulin, avoiding colony collapse and providing flexibility in how long you run the ferment
☑ any inulin left over is just useful MAC for you.
Inulin
re: «Somewhere it was suggested that potato starch would also do,…»
The starch of a raw potato is a glucose polymer. Some of the program recipes call for it, perhaps because those microbes entirely ignore fructans.
Retail unmodified potato starch isn’t quite ‘raw’, due to heat drying and milling, so might be only 50% resistant. In a ferment, this isn’t a big deal, because the microbes will consume the lactose, then the free glucose. I don’t use it unless I have to, because it doesn’t really dissolve, and in my attempts, tends to stratify.
Other MACs may work, but require either research or experimentation.
re: «…but I’m seeing people who swear by just table sugar.»
That is also called for in the coconut base recipe, but there because the recipe otherwise lacks sufficient simple carbohydrates for the microbes. The concern with using only simple carbs is avoiding having any left over, but also avoiding mass die-off because the ferment ran past the point of having none left over.
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Why did the Lactobacillus Gaseri from the Biothin probiotic product and the BC Bacillus coagulants from the digestive advantage product get removed from the original recipe? Do we not need them anymore with the new recipe?
Ricardo Avendano wrote: «Why did the Lactobacillus Gaseri from the Biothin probiotic product and the BC Bacillus coagulants from the digestive advantage product get removed from the original recipe?»
Lactobacillus gasseri BNR-17 is still in the recipe.
Bacillus coagulans has been replaced by Bacillus subtilis HU58, due to subtilis being much more predictable for home yogurt-making. It is suggested to make HU58 as a separate yogurt, due to its more rapid doubling time.
Dr. Davis just today added further insights on subtilis HU58: Bacillus subtilis: Champion bacteriocin producer
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These are all the ingredients shown in the updated recipe:
“You will need:
–Glass or ceramic bowl or other vessel large enough to hold at least one quart of liquid
–1-2 tablespoons of inulin
–Starter: 1 capsule of MyReuteri. For subsequent batches, use 2 tablespoons previous batch of L. reuteri yogurt (whey or curds or mixture of both)
–1 quart of half-and-half or other liquid (to make with coconut milk, several additional steps and ingredients are required)”
Can you please show me if I missed something from the updated recipe. I can not find the Lactobacillus gasseri BNR-17 or the Bacillus subtilis HU58 in the updated recipe. Thank you.
A note that I’ve just pulled Batch #50 out of my Ultimate Yogurt Maker. No issues no failures since starting in December 2024. Doing batches of L reuteri (MyReuteri), L gasseri (Mercola Biothin), L paracasei strain Shirota (Yakult), and mixed-culture using L reuteri (Toniiq) and Stonyfield Plain Organic Whole Milk Greek Yogurt.
One thing we do now is make the first batch with the probiotic pills and since they come out smelling kind of like cheese we just use that as the “starter” for our yogurt for a couple of months. Just take 2 Tbsp of the “starter” yogurt with 2 Tbsp of the Inulin powder with 1.5 quarts of organic half and half. Then the yogurt comes out perfectly every time, but we never eat that first batch.
In a forum elsewhere I read:
> I had a disastrous experience with this yogurt. I used the recommended strain and brand, washed and bleached everything before hand so as not to contaminate anything. After consuming the 1/4 to 1/2 cup, the very next day my hands became extremely swollen and even developed lock/trigger finger in one of my fingers. My hands were fine before I consumed. I stopped consuming the yogurt as the swelling continued. After 5+ months of not using, the swelling and finger pain is still evident…mostly after waking up from sleep. I am single and drive for a living and this has been a total disaster. I sorely regret the day I ever watched those videos from Dr Davis.
I had quite the opposite effect – my right hand would be painful to close in the morning, and the middle finger would lock aka “trigger finger”. After starting the L reuteri yogurt this went away – which I am very, VERY pleased with.
I haven’t seen this described elsewhere here or in other fora…
I would really like to see Dr. Davis come out and amend the official guidance to have people boil the vessels they make the yogurt and all utensils coming in contact for 10 minutes. I had over a dozen bad batches that didn’t make me sick, but could have. I didn’t give up. Once I did this step I have had months of successful results every time. I am making the SIBO yogurt and L Reuteri in wide mouth quart mason jars with plastic screw top lids in a programmable Instapot, 4 quarts at a time. I am boiling the jars, lids, spoons I stir with and measuring spoons in water for 10 mins. Problem solved. This would result in a large increase in consistency of successful results. I see all these people in this forum and Youtube videos stressing with extra steps and this is the only extra step needed. The blue sterilizing tabs did NOT work for me.
Todd Haverstock wrote: «I would really like to see Dr. Davis come out and amend the official guidance to have people boil the vessels they make the yogurt and all utensils coming in contact for 10 minutes.»
I doubt that will happen. He’s actually said in Inner Circle traffic that dishwashing should suffice. Some of the microbes used are very robust in this regard (e.g. all those used in the SIBO blends, which express bacteriocins). L. reuteri is actually used by microbiologists to clean their vats.
Now there are a number of things that could use some attention:
Whisks
If the wire loops are crimped at the handle, that crevice area is hard to sanitize. There are a number of things that can help. Simply pointing it down in the dishwasher might suffice to keep the crevice clear of microbes and detergent, as well as minimize residual rinse agent. For extra assurance, have a container of near-boiling water hand during prep, and set the whisk in there for 10min. My personal process also covers the problem.
Stick Blenders (used in the coconut recipe)
The effector end of these devices is also hard to sterilize, and they aren’t dishwasher-safe. The approach I would use is to have a container of near-boiling water handy, and spot the stick in that before other prep.
Inulin
None of the inulins on the market so far claim to be sterile. I’ve added some tips to the checklists I maintain, on how to gain some advantage on this.
Retail probiotics (bacterial only)
I routinely store spare probiotic in a freezer, to extend shelf life. At room temperature, shelf life applies, and just what might be going on in the capsules isn’t clear to me.
Generational yogurt
If using the immediate prior batch as starter, pull that starter as soon as the source container is first opened, and not when it’s nearly empty, having been drawn from with various spoons of uncertain status. The saved🧊starter method moots this concern.
re: «wide mouth quart mason jars with plastic screw top lids»
Tight or loose? These ferments are expansive and hyperbaric. Tight lids have a been a problem (although not for sterility).
re: «The blue sterilizing tabs did NOT work for me.»
New to me; what be they?
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Hi Bob – thank you for the detailed response. Respectfully, none of those issues apply to my batch failures. I have watched all of Dr. Davis’ videos plus dozens of other Youtubers. I had failures with two brands of inulin using both MyReuteri and BioGai on separate tests. All of those inputs worked fine after boiling to sterilize, eliminating them as cause. I used only spoons to measure or stir, no whisks or blenders. I tried the blue sterilizing tabs, hot water, dishwasher, etc and none of those cured the problem. I think there is a reason boiling for 10 minutes to sterilize in the canning space is a safety standard out there. I am seeing tons of failures in Youtube comments and people even reducing ferment times to 20 hours to get this to work (a very bad thing in terms of effectiveness). Lot of peoples’ houses or plumbing have bacteria somewhere that is tainting that the boiling has cured for me. I even had bad 2nd and 3rd gen batches not just the first batch problems. My first gen batches have a microscopic amount of whey separation that goes away 100% in 2nd gen. I think this is really a key finding to promote further for greater adoption through reduced failures.
I’ve been making and consuming the L-Reuteri yogurt since the beginning of May and have definitely noticed positive effects. Quick to fall asleep, less digestive disorders and pain from diverticular disease, quicker recovery from physical activity. The benefits became apparent when I went away on vacation for over 2 weeks and stopped taking it. Issues quickly returned. When I got back I had some frozen and started back in and things subsided within a day. But I quickly made a batch using MyReuteri, VitaMatic Bacillus Coagulans and Dr. Mercola Biothin (L. Gasseri). It produced a yogurt nearly indistinguishable from the L-Reuteri recipe. But shortly after consuming it I started experiencing some unpleasant effects; painful (and foul!) gas for one. I’m wondering if this is perhaps Herxheimer Reaction/SIBO die off and should stay the course, or just go back to the single L-Reuteri recipe.
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «I haven’t seen this described elsewhere here or in other fora…»
I haven’t seen that one either, but I only monitor this blog’s comments and the Inner Circle forum.
I can observe that too many people, often never having made yogurt previously, are jumping in at the SIBO blend. They are still on the diet that failed-to-prevent, if not sustains/enabled/caused their problems. They have done nothing about the wider nutritional context. And variables abound with their yogurt making (including some risk of multiplying frank pathogens).
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Hello Bob,
I’ve been making succesful and very tasty separate batches of SIBO, HU58 and Vagina (I call it FEM, lol..) yogurt for nearly 2 years. All the SIBO starters I have in the freezer were made with the original formula, but I was reading one of your answer to a comment were you said that the reuteri strain in BioGaia Osfortis is superior to the Gastrus strain. I need that reuteri benefit, but I would prefer not having to make one more yougurt…. Shall I add one cap of Osfortis to my next batch to improve my Sibo? Will that cause the dreadful first batch Syndrome?
Thank you.
Jolanda
jolanda lovati wrote: «…I was reading one of your answer to a comment were you said that the reuteri strain in BioGaia Osfortis is superior to the Gastrus strain.»
Not quite. While the Oxiceutics™ MyReuteri™ (now available in 50B CFU) is the preferred starter, where it is not available BioGaia® Osfortis® is the alternative.
Osfortis is preferable to Gastrus® for several reasons:
• potency: it’s entirely ATCC PTA 6475 strain,
• economy: 5B CFU per capsule vs ~100M (of ‘6475) per tablet, and
• convenience: easily-opened capsule vs. needing to crush tablets.
Gastrus is a blend of ‘6475 and DSM 17938 strains, and ‘17938 lacks at least one benefit of interest.
re: «Shall I add one cap of Osfortis to my next batch to improve my Sibo?»
Are you starting from retail probiotic each time, or using the generational method?
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I’m using generational method.
I already have Osfortis and I was thinking of adding it to my Sibo batch, hoping it won’t cause first batch syndrome.
I heard that reuteri count decreases after a number of generational methods.
jolanda lovati wrote: «I’m using generational method.»
So don’t repeat that for more than 8 or so cycles, or switch to the the saved🧊starter method.
re: «I already have Osfortis and I was thinking of adding it to my Sibo batch, hoping it won’t cause first batch syndrome.»
Is this starting a new first batch, or are you planning to reinoculate a generational batch? (which can be expected to not do much)
re: «I heard that reuteri count decreases after a number of generational methods.»
But I’ll bet you didn’t hear that from this program.
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I was planning to reinoculate a generational batch to increase the ATCC PTA 6475 strain.
jolanda lovati wrote: «I was planning to reinoculate a generational batch to increase the ATCC PTA 6475 strain.»
I used to do that in the early days, but learned that it’s pointless. If a generational batch/starter has a problem that you think re-inoc might fix, it won’t. Start over.
The CFUs in a retail starter are minor compared to those in a saved portion. If contamination is the problem, more starter won’t fix it. If something is causing die-off of the desired species, re-inoc won’t fix that either.
This is one of the advantages of the saved starter method: you are working from a known-viable batch, frozen in time, for use at any needed future date.
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I notice that the Osfortis has vitamin D in it. Is that okay?
Kathryn Higbee wrote: «I notice that the Osfortis has vitamin D in it. Is that okay?»
I was using Osfortis® to make yogurt before MyReuteri™ was available, and never found it to be a problem … nor the maltodextrin (which is metabolized in the first batch), nor the calcium stearate (which is minimal and further diluted).
Even for direct consumption, the D₃ in Osfortis, at 200 IU per capsule, hardly needs to be included in your supplementation calculations. It’s only 3% of what most people need, and in a dry form that is poorly absorbed.
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Apparently there is a Facebook group that is analyzing L reuteri “yogurt” recipe. That group has done a “16s DNA” test and shown that the Davis L reuteri recipe produces no more than 5% L reuteri. I’m still looking for details (I can’t go on Facebook because I’m contractually obligated to NOT have a Facebook presence).
Meanwhile, I tripped over this analysis of a Toniiq L reuteri using the Davis recipe (except, clearly, they didn’t). In this output the contents of the batch are <4% L reuteri.
Can you comment on this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ReuteriYogurt/comments/1jm8wwe/the_reuteri_yogurt_here_is_your_average/
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «Apparently there is a Facebook group … (I can’t go on Facebook because I’m contractually obligated to NOT have a Facebook presence).»
I have never had an FB account, so I won’t be reviewing that traffic either. I also;don’t have a reddit account, but can at least see that page you linked.
The lack of recipe & prep detail, sample preservation & conveyance detail, infantile grammar and generally paranoid presumptions about the program don’t encourage me to examine it in detail. I also;have no way to replicate the test.
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Davis mentions the reuterin as a benefit, but there are some who disagree. Can I get you to comment on the following?
I am currently attempting to ferment yogurt with lactobacillus reuteri RC-14 which lacks the reuterin producing “gldC gene”. I do not plan on ingesting any strain that can produce the powerful antimicrobial compound called reuterin, that is usually made in the presence of glycerol, because it is implicated in DNA damage when it converts itself into an aldehyde called acrolein.
Are those here aware that certain reuteri strains with the gldC gene are potentially hazardous to your health due to the reuterin which can convert to acrolein? Personally, I would make sure that you’re consuming strains that lack the gene altogether. I saw a few threads of people attempting to produce this compound by adding glycerin. I just wanted to warn people that the same antimicrobial effects that reuterin produces are potentially damaging to YOUR DNA too. Lactobacillus strains can have horizontal gene transfer inheritance, meaning that it can potentially adopt and give mutations to and from other bacteria.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ReuteriYogurt/comments/1jm8wwe/the_reuteri_yogurt_here_is_your_average/
I’ve recently tripped over a number of posts on other fora that suggest that the inulin is not necessary to successfully make this “yogurt”. I’m tempted to try a batch without it just to see. Is is possible that this is another step where it was necessary at one point but, now having refined the recipe, it is actually not necessary?
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «I’ve recently tripped over a number of posts on other fora that suggest that the inulin is not necessary to successfully make this “yogurt”.»
I’m going to propose that these pundits misunderstand the role of the inulin or other MAC in the program ferments.
If the yogurt ferment is stopped at just the right moment, the MAC component might not be strictly necessary. The problem is, even tracking pH, I’m not sure you can manage pulling it just as the last of the simple sugar (usually lactose) is exhausted.
In my view, the role of the inulin, unmetabolized potato starch, or other MAC, is to be a less-preferred resistant carb for the bugs to fall back on when the sugars are gone, preventing mass die-off. If any MAC is left over, it’s just prebiotic for you. This allows variable starting CFUs, variable available sugar substrate, other variables in the fermenting process, but ample time to consume the substrate, and have a cushion for lower-rate fermentation, with many hours of guard band.
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Thank you. I think I now have my head right about the role inulin plays. Simply put, it is a hedge against all of the variables in the process with no down-side because the residual inulin will only feed your gut-buddies.
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «I think I now have my head right about the role inulin plays. Simply put, it is a hedge against all of the variables in the process with no down-side because the residual inulin will only feed your gut-buddies.»
Keep in mind that this is just my impression of the situation. There may be other microbiology going on that I’m unaware of. I don’t recall any instances of Dr. Davis revealing more about the metabolic details.
“Reuteri doesn’t like fructans!” seems to be a common observation, to which my response so far has been “yes, and presume that’s intentional”.
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I would recommend you have a look at Matthew Cress’ video here:
https://youtu.be/gVkzsmaXBbY?t=849
He would seem to have some microbiology background, especially in the area of fermentation. In this video he comments on the 36-hour method versus his preferred method. His observations on the fermentation process actually support your notion, except he uses a pH method to determine how many hours to wait, but does not have this “hedge” against mass die-off.
Note he’s in Lyon, France, and uses European components and gets the sorts of results one would expect.
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «I would recommend you have a look at Matthew Cress’ video here:»
That critic was cited on the Inner Circle forum some time back, and Dr. Davis is aware of it.
The remark there was “The SIBO yogurt recipe and technique unfortunately does not work…” which is directly contradicted by Dr. Davis’ experience with the approach, and member reports of reductions in H₂ and CH₄ challenge responses, plus other malaises receding.
re: «…he uses a pH method to determine how many hours to wait, but does not have this “hedge” against mass die-off.»
If relying solely on lactose exhaustion, something like pH might indeed need to be used to know when to pull the batch. And when, is going to vary depending on a variety of factors, not the least of which is the possible wide variation in starter CFUs (from capsules, prior batch portion, saved ice cube). Having an alternate less-preferred MAC substrate for the bugs to turn to post-lactose, is a neat gambit.
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i just made a beautiful batch of L Gasseri using from Inulin NOW brand and a culture from a fresh culture packet, which usually will separate. I cleaned everything well and ran under very hot water but did not sterilize everything. It didn’t separate at all, not even on the bottom of the glass Luvele container. So happy to finally crack the code thanks to this group and Dr. Davis! i will look for separation in the future to let me know that the inulin may have gotten contaminated, I may not have cleaned everything properly, or the starter may have petered out.
thanks so much for all the attention to detail, Bob. i, like many of us here have made some ugly, separated, weird smelling batches and it is good to know the sterilization process can be so helpful. i am currently making a batch using inulin instead of what i had been using, Prebio Plus, which contained inulin, acacia and FOS. I washed all utensils in very hot soapy water, but did not sterilize everything by boiling it. I will try that next time. This time i am just hoping the inuline will make a difference. So i guess it would be preferable to wait until i get a pretty batch until i freeze it in a (sterilized) ice cube tray? And i think those are about 1 T little cups so i could use 1 of the frozen yogurts to 1 tablespoons of inulin to 1 quart of 1/2 and 1/2?
valerie wrote: «So i guess it would be preferable to wait until i get a pretty batch until i freeze it in a (sterilized) ice cube tray? And i think those are about 1 T little cups so i could use 1 of the frozen yogurts to 1 tablespoons of inulin to 1 quart of 1/2 and 1/2?»
The ice cube trays at my house vary from just over a tbsp to perhaps 2½ tbsp. I tend to use 1 ice cube per quart regardless of ice cube size.
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are you saying you make it 4 gallons at a time?? that would be amazing! can you tell what equipment you use?
valerie wrote: «are you saying you make it 4 gallons at a time??»
I’m not sure to whom that question is addressed, but I don’t.
I do use a 6 or 10 quart pot, but usually make between one quart and one gallon at a time.
While the recipes scale up and down linearly, one challenge with large batches is consuming it all before the shelf life expires.
re: «can you tell what equipment you use?»
It’s an old 50qt cooler, heated by a couple of 40W appliance incandescents, controlled by an apiary thermostat. The pot sits on bottle caps for air circulation. It cannot cold-start, but holds temp very precisely when pre-warmed, and rides out power interruptions reliably.
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I have been making LReutrie for a while now. Using Mason jars and my sous vide. I’m using organic half and half and either potato starch or Inulin powder. At first I used Bio Gaia and then switched to My Reuterie. A few times now (it seems to make no difference what I do or use), but occasionally the yoghurt separates with some liquid in the bottom of the jar and the rest is not creamy like it usually is. It’s kind of curdled. Any advise how to prevent this?
Ulli Nerenberg wrote: «Using Mason jars…»
How covered during the ferment, and if capped, how tightly?
re: «…either potato starch or Inulin powder.»
Have you noticed any difference? I only use inulin these days, so have no recent experience with potato starch. Also my personal process involves [re]pasteurization, with the inulin & whisk in the pot, and that probably wouldn’t work with PS.
re: «At first I used Bio Gaia and then switched to My Reuterie. »
If you are using retail probiotic for starter every time, you risk first-batch-syndrome (FBS) every time, due to low CFUs vs. prior batch yogurt. Consider using the generational or saved🧊starter methods.
BioGaia® Gastrus®? Due to the low CFUs, that tends to increase the odds of FBS. Using any of the MyReuteri™ products for starter is more likely to avoid FBS.
You can run through these☑☒checklists and see if any other suspects confess.
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Previously I covered very loosely with the jar lids and thought that this might be the problem, even though I had done so quite a few times before with no issues. Now I am using cling wrap covering the jars.
After using potato starch about 50 times, with no issues, I all of a sudden had the separation issue. So I switched to Inulin and at first that worked fine. It might have been that the potato starch was getting too old.
I don’t always make a new start with the probiotic. I usually do the generational method.
This last time I used a new MyReuteri capsule though, because the batch before separated. Lone and behold it happened again with the new capsule.
I had it a few times, were the end product was separated as well as it dairy looked like cottage cheese and smelled terrible. This last time it wasn’t firm, but also not like cottage cheese. Can I use it anyways to start a new batch?
My jars and utensils are run through the dishwasher, so they should be sterilized.
The only thing I don’t do, is to heat up the milk. I have heard different opinions on that.
I hope this helps many people. I made over a dozen FAILED batches (tons of seperation and bad taste) and followed Dr. Davis’ recipt to the letter using widemouth quart mason jars in an Instapot at precisely 100 degrees. Then I made tons of tweaks including heating the milk to 190 degrees, different inulin, blue sterilizing tabs, and much more. I was super scientific with my testing but nothing worked. Finally I figured it out. I boiled the mason jars, lids, every single utensil or item that touched the yogurt and boiled it for 10 minutes at full boil in a crappy old pot. I have made dozens of successful batches that have been highly perfect every time!! For all those that are frustrated, please try this and share your results! Don’t do ANYTHING extra except for this.
Ulli Nerenberg wrote: «So I switched to Inulin and at first that worked fine. It might have been that the potato starch was getting too old.»
…or contaminated. Suspicions have been growing about the sterility of inulins and potato starches. And it’s not really a fault of the producers. A 36hr body-temperature ferment is not an expected use case for their products.
I’ve been using approach №2 from this list, and never see signs of contamination. Dr. Davis is working on making a more sterile inulin available as a product, but even there, unless it’s in single-use packets, as soon as it’s opened, opportunistic environment microbes can become a problem.
re: «I don’t always make a new start with the probiotic. I usually do the generational method.»
And with that, if contamination arises, it’s perpetuated.
re: «Can I use it anyways to start a new batch?»
When it’s confidently just first batch syndrome, even the drained-off whey fraction makes a suitable starter.
re: «My jars and utensils are run through the dishwasher, so they should be sterilized.»
That’s all I do for the final jars. At some point, the health & ferment effects of residual rinse agents might need a ponder.
re: «The only thing I don’t do, is to heat up the milk. I have heard different opinions on that.»
I have to at least pre-warm, because my incubator can’t cold-start. Pre-warm can also reduce any hot-spot effects in some devices. And of course, it extends the ferment by whatever the device warm-up time is.
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I have taken the the habit of transferring the fermented dairy (either l reuteri, l gasseri, or l casei) from each of the 1qt bins in the Ultimate Yogurt Maker to tall bins for the refrigerator. Recently I’ve started stirring each bin up to make a more spoonable, consistent texture. It occurred to me that these are anaerobic bacteria that might not like to be exposed to air even for the interval of stirring up the bin. Can you comment on this observation?
Ilmarinen Virginia wrote: «…I’ve started stirring each bin up to make a more spoonable, consistent texture. It occurred to me that these are anaerobic bacteria that might not like to be exposed to air even for the interval of stirring up the bin.»
If you are doing that just as they go into refrigeration, I’m not sure I’d worry about it.
In my process, the yogurt is made in a 16 quart pot. On completion, it’s ladled into 24oz Ball® jars (slightly over-filled to eliminate any air gap). I don’t stir them, but also never see a problem in a 30 day shelf life.
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Hi Bob, can you please explain what this means?
Dilution of the dilution
While any ingredients of concern in the original retail probiotic are typically reduced to ⅛ (13%) in a portion of a first batch, treating the first batch as starter{only} reduces the ingredient to 1⁄512 of the original amount, a fraction of 1% and usually down in the micrograms range.
valerie wrote: «…can you please explain what this means?: Dilution of the dilution»
This is about an ingredient of concern (IoC) in a starter, that survives the ferment. Some such, like maltose, dextrose, most of any rice powder, would be consumed by the microbes and are nil even in the first batch.
Any others, like TiO₂, flavorants & colorants, are going to diluted across the number of portions the first batch makes. A 1 quart batch is 8 ½-cup servings, so the IoC is reduced by 8:1 (⅛).
If you treat that first batch as future starter use only, you’ll be taking perhaps 1 tbsp (⅛ of ½ cup) of it to make a batch (IoC now ⅛ of ⅛, or ¹⁄₆₄ of the 1ˢᵗ batch). The batches it makes are 8 servings each so the IoC in a serving, is now ¹⁄₅₁₂ of what is was in the 1ˢᵗ batch.
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I usually leave the ferment tubs in the refrigerator for an hour after taking them out of our UYM before transferring them to the storage bins. One day I got distracted and they were in the fridge for almost five hours. The firmness and texture was actually quite better, so I’ve switched over to leaving them in the fridge for longer.