Making yogurt out of Lactobacillus reuteri is really a simple, straightforward process that I have been talking about for the past year. But some people get tripped up on the details, lamenting the thin, sour, or discolored end-result they obtain.
So here is the simple recipe, step-by-step to minimize your potential for making mistakes. Truly: I have made something like 60-70 batches with not a single failure. You can do this, too.
Why do this? Well, if you are new to this conversation, you will be excited to know that the yogurt is really not about yogurt, as conventional yogurts achieve none of these effects. This “yogurt” fermented with two unconventional strains of Lactobacillus reuteri achieve effects that include:
- Smoothing of skin wrinkles due to an explosion of dermal collagen
- Accelerated healing, cutting healing time in almost half
- Reduced appetite, the so-called “anorexigenic” effect—food still tastes good, but you are almost completely indifferent to temptation
- Increased testosterone in men
- Increased libido
- Preservation of bone density—Obtaining L. reuteri is one of the most important steps you can take to prevent osteoporosis
- Deeper sleep—though this benefit is enjoyed by less than 20% of people
- Increased empathy and desire for connectedness with other people
- Probiotic effects that may include prevention of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO
The majority of benefits are a result of L. reuteri‘s ability to provoke hypothalamic release of oxytocin, a hormone that is proving to be the key to substantial age-reversal and health effects.
You will need:
–Glass or ceramic bowl or other vessel large enough to hold at least one quart of liquid
–2 tablespoons of prebiotic fiber such as inulin or raw potato starch
–Starter: Either 10 tablets BioGaia Gastrus or 2 tablespoons previous batch of L. reuteri yogurt (whey or curds or mixture of both)
–1 quart of half-and-half or other liquid (to make with coconut milk, several additional steps and ingredients are required)
–Some method of maintaining at 100 degrees F
Yields: Around 8 one-half-cup servings
Make sure your bowl or other vessel is clean after washing with hot soap and water:
Add 2 level tablespoons of prebiotic fiber:
Add 10 crushed tablets of Gastrus (that provide 200 million CFUs of L. reuteri, a relatively small number). Crush the tablets with a mortar and pestle or by putting into a plastic bag and crushing with a rolling pin or heavy bottle/glass until reduced to a coarse powder. (The tablets are flavored with mint and mandarin, but the taste does not show in the final product, nor in subsequent batches.) Once you have made your first batch, make subsequent batches with two tablespoons of the prior batch, rather than crushed tablets; it can be any mixture of whey or solid curds, as both contain L. reuteri.
Mix either crushed tablets or 2 tablespoons prior yogurt with prebiotic fiber:
Add a little, e.g., 2 tablespoons, of your choice of dairy; I used organic half-and-half, as this yields the best texture (and, of course, we NEVER limit fat in the Wheat Belly lifestyle). Make a slurry by stirring; this prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber. (Whole milk—NEVER low- or non-fat—yields a thinner end result, while cream yields something close to butter, too thick for my taste.)
Stir in remainder of half-and-half or other liquid:
Cover lightly with plastic wrap or other means. Ferment by maintaining at 100 degrees F for 36 hours. Prolonged fermentation—far longer than the 6 or so hours of commercial yogurts that explain why the bacterial counts are so low–in the presence of prebiotic fibers yields far higher bacterial counts in the tens to hundreds of billions per serving.
I used a basin-type sous vide device, but you can use a stick sous vide, yogurt maker with adjustable temperature control, or Instant Pot. (Just be careful with the Instant Pot or yogurt makers without adjustable temperature, as they are set to be compatible with conventional yogurt microorganisms and are often too hot and kill L. reuteri; if your device heats to 110 degrees F or higher, it will likely kill L. reuteri and you should find an alternative means of heating. If in doubt, turn on your device and measure the temperature reached with a thermometer first before you ruin a batch.) Keep your materials out of the way of fans, heating/cooling vents, or other sources of air contamination.
The end-result for me is rich, thick, and delicious, better tasting—and with far higher probiotic bacterial counts—than anything you can buy in a store. Once refrigerated, the “yogurt” is so thick that it can stand upright on a plate:
Serve with fresh or frozen berries, grainless granola, squirt of liquid stevia, or your choice of fruit or natural sweetener.
I am wondering how important the ratios are. For future batches, could I increase the amount of milk I use to produce more yogurt? If so would I simply just double the milk and the starter?
Jalissa Klippenstein wrote: «I am wondering how important the ratios are. For future batches, could I increase the amount of milk I use to produce more yogurt? If so would I simply just double the milk and the starter?»
The program yogurt recipes scale linearly, up and down. Reduce or increase the amount of starter(note) and prebiotic extender based on the volume of substrate. Use the same temp & time.
I’ve made them in volumes from 1 pint to 1 gallon.
Note: for a reduced first batch, I would not reduce the amount of tablet/capsule/powder starter. Saved starter from a prior batch can be scaled.
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I have made about 4 or 5 batches now and even after refrigerated mine does not look as smooth and does not stand alone like the picture. Mine looks a little more like thick cottage cheese. Do I need more inulin? Add a couple more tablets? Or maybe even a little of both? Thank you in advance for your response.
MsDasher wrote: «I have made about 4 or 5 batches now … Add a couple more tablets?»
How are you making subsequent batches? If starting over from tablets, and you got “first batch syndrome” on batch #1, you’re apt to get it every time.
re: «…and even after refrigerated mine does not look as smooth and does not stand alone like the picture.»
Batch #2, from saved #1 yogurt, would usually be expected to present more like retail yogurt. In addition to settling the starter question above, see my checklists.
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I use organic half and half in my batches and after the first batch I use pre-batch for the others. Should I start over?
MsDasher wrote: «…after the first batch I use pre-batch for the others.»
I’m unclear on what “pre-batch” means.
First batches tend to have some separation. The watery {whey} fraction can be drained off and saved or use as starter for subsequent batches. Any excess can be frozen as ice cubes, and used indefinitely, slowly thawed for use.
If you started the second batch from a saved portion of the first batch, and didn’t get a firmer yogurt, that makes me suspect that the fist batch itself had some additional problem (thus, the checklists linked earlier).
But to return to part of your original question, although I used to do it, there’s almost never a case for adding tablets. If a generational batch has a problem that seems to need more CFUs, tablets won’t help. Tablets contain far too few CFUs to make much of a difference, and can do nothing for certain problems (contamination, for example).
Starting over, from tablets, might be worth a try. When I have to do this (which I did after a freezer malfunction), I plan to use most or all of the first batch as saved starter.
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I wish I found this page first. I found the recipe somewhere else and the article had more comments from failed batches. This page seems to show those that worked well. I found culturing L-reuteri from BioGaia to be quite easy… but I wish it came in a capsule instead. Anyway, this is how I did it: https://youtu.be/1qeVoY_hYdA
Michael Haley wrote: «Anyway, this is how I did it:»
☑ sterilize mortar & pestle
Great tip, and another approach is to crush the tablets with a flat-face mallet while they are still in the blister pack.
☑ warm-start
I do that as well (mainly because my ad-hoc incubator can’t cold-start). I also point out in my checklists that running a dummy (water only) “batch” provides an opportunity to check the rig for hot spots.
☐ fewer tablets, more time
Dr. Davis ran some tab-count trials in the early days, and found high risk of failure at low tab counts. Why is unclear, but may have something to do with viable CFUs per tab, and how many are available after crushing.
☑ know your temp hysteresis
This is also worth checking on that dummy run. Perhaps the main problem is that too many devices can soar well above target temp.
☒ don’t fill the container(s)
I recommend not filling above 80% of container capacity (and don’t tightly cap). I’ve seen too many reports of blown caps and overflow. This recipe is apparently both modestly hyperbaric, and expansive.
☒ 24 hours?
What run-time you used was unclear, but the goal is not “yogurt”; it’s maximum CFU counts before die-off becomes a problem. 36 hours is the recipe target.
☐ inulin
You left it out for the video batch, but it’s probably key for 36h batches, and Inner Circle members have reported that using more inulin seems to provide greater odds of 1st-batch success. It may also be key for over-time batches, as it provides a buffer when the bugs chow down on all the lactose. I’ve accidentally run such batches to 54h with no sign of die-off fouling.
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Wow! What an awesome response. I did use the inulin with the probiotics I was using and did let it culture longer and it was AMAZING! (Super Sour and curdling a bit… like kefir). But the L reuteri potential benefits really has my attention and the scientist in me had to get to work.
Odly, the BaioGaia did not come in a blister pack… they are loose tablets in a bottle. But the idea of crushing them in a zip-lock or something… I might experiment with the concept.
I will try 2 gallons in my 2.5 gallon container next… probably with a back-slop of the current batch and 1 crushed tablet. This frugal scientist might be a bit too confident! But, you are probably right that not all tablets are as viable – who knows where the bottles have been in the mail and what temperatures they were exposed to before arriving in my home.
Also… I’m going for the 36 hours and extra inulin next time. That will be a whole new level for me.
Thank you for the expert advice. I feel like I stumbled on something great and can’t wait to experience it and then share it with my email database.
Blessings.
~ dr. michael haley
Michael Haley wrote: «Odly, the BaioGaia did not come in a blister pack… they are loose tablets in a bottle.»
Ah, thanks for that update. I haven’t bought any in a couple of years. My initial batches become ice cubes for use as future starter, so last for years.
re: «I will try 2 gallons in my 2.5 gallon container next… probably with a back-slop of the current batch and 1 crushed tablet.»
Drained-off whey fraction makes great starter. Adding more tablets is generally wasting a tablet. If the bulk starter is viable, it contains orders of magnitude more CFUs than a tab. If a tab appears to be needed, there’s a problem that a tab won’t fix.
re: « I feel like I stumbled on something great and can’t wait to experience it and then share it with my email database.»
Keep in mind that the progurt developments are a recent layer in an optimal health hierarchy that’s been developing for a couple of decades. If the underlying elements aren’t addressed, the progurts may not deliver full benefits.
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I’e had very good making this yogurt in an instant pot (IP), using 2 quarts of grass-fed cow’s mix (4% fat) and “normal” yogurt setting on the IP for 36 hours after milk is boiled.
Initially used 10 crushed Gastrus tablets for the first batch and 2 tablespoons of organic inulin, then used this first batch to seed the second (and so forth), having only used (3) tablets again for the that 2nd batch.
The first batch of yogurt was pretty good (poured off about a cup of whey) and since then, the 10 or so batches I’ve made have been very good – good consistency with a bit of tang, with I offset in eating with some fresh blueberries and a teaspoon or two of inulin powder, which I figure is a great prebiotic.
I’m a 64-year-old in excellent health who feels ever better since making and eating this yogurt. I’ve come to really like it!
Daniel Sherman wrote: «…and “normal” yogurt setting on the IP…»
Have you probed that to see what temperature it settles at?
re: «…poured off about a cup of whey…»
Save that. It makes great starter. You can also freeze it as ice cubes, indefinitely. Slowly thaw for use, one cube per qt/L.
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Hi – I just started making this yogurt after listening to Ben Greenfield. I love it but I was wondering if I can make a double batch at one time? or would it not be long enough to make for it to “cook” – not sure that makes sense.
We have the Luvele Pure yogurt maker and always use ultra-pasturized milk.
Isabel Covarrubias wrote: «…wondering if I can make a double batch at one time?»
You can. I accidentally made a gallon batch last week.
The recipes scale up and down linearly. The only issue might be depth. Making a batch over 8in/20cm deep might risk some stratification.
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The first batch I made was with Graham’s full cream milk and it ended up like cottage cheese so I still ate the lot…
The 2nd batch I used was with Cravendale whole milk with new tablets which now has the yoghurt consistency, however, both appeared to ferment like ‘first batch syndrome’ so my question is, do we stir the whole batch after the 36 hours is up, or, do we refrigerate first, then drain the watery whey into a separate tub?
I tried to drain the 2nd batch first before refrigerating but it appeared to spoil the thicker yoghurt so I put it in the fridge for 24 hours then drained as much as possible into a separate tub (I feel like it was slightly lumpy after spoiling it) then stirred the rest…
The consistency is now more like single cream rather than it standing up on a plate by itself! I will reseed this batch but, if I was to do a 3rd batch with the remaining 10 tablets, can I use unpasteurised milk straight from a farm or is this classed as full cream milk like the first attempt?
Thanks
Jon Hayes wrote: «The first batch I made was with Graham’s full cream milk and it ended up like cottage cheese so I still ate the lot…»
So, didn’t save any for use as starter?
And any drained-off {whey} fraction makes a great starter.
re: «…do we stir the whole batch after the 36 hours is up,…»
I’ve never stirred it, except when adding it, post-blend, to a smoothie. However brewed, it’s always been my impression that yogurt structure is relatively fragile, and stirring would bias it back to a more liquid state.
re: «…do we refrigerate first, then drain the watery whey into a separate tub?»
Due to the way I make mine (1 or 2qt batches, in a single pot), I end up transferring it to storage jars for chilling. Any whey fraction remains in the pot, and can be saved for starter (as ice cubes in my practice).
In any case, you are apt to get much happier results using some of a prior batch as starter, due to the orders of magnitude higher CFU counts. Here are some tips.
re: «…can I use unpasteurised milk straight from a farm or is this classed as full cream milk like the first attempt?»
You can use cow, goat or sheep, even from powdered. However, raw milk (or cream) must be pasteurized. The risks from natural microbes in raw milk varies even for immediate consumption, but over the enhanced 36h ferment of this recipe, pathogenic naturals could grow to a very toxic degree.
In general half-cream (half&half), with sufficient starter CFUs, tends to make a thicker yogurt.
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Re: So, didn’t save any for use as starter?
And any drained-off {whey} fraction makes a great starter.
No, I ended up just drinking the whey as I thought I’d spoiled it!
I made another batch with Cravendale Full Flitered Milk which was perfect in taste…
I have kept the whey since then and also started to ice them in separate tubs, is it best to use 1 tbsp of whey & 1 tbsp of previous yoghurt for the best mix? Also, is 2-4 tbsp’s of previous ok with 2 tbsp of inulin powder?
What I’ve noticed in all my batches is that they resemble sloppy ice cream more than being able to stand up on their own or like high street yoghurt but I’m ok with that as I feel like it’s because it’s natural with no added preservatives or stabling agents like Gellen Gum etc…
I’m also very pleased to report that I am one of the 20% who experience much deeper sleep now & I don’t get sciatic nerve pulses down my leg anymore which would wake me up sometimes at night! This was what I was hoping would work for me the most :)
Thanks very much for helping me out with this troublesome issue :)
Jon Hayes wrote: «No, I ended up just drinking the whey as I thought I’d spoiled it!»
When you get an acceptable batch, save the drained-off whey for starter — as ice cubes might be ideal.
Due to its insulin-provoking tendencies, deliberately consuming whey is a lot less than ideal (despite it being featured in clueless protein supplements and snack bars).
re: «…is it best to use 1 tbsp of whey & 1 tbsp of previous yoghurt for the best mix?»
I use one saved, slowly-thawed ice cube of starter per qt/L, although one per ½gal/2L seems to work just as well. I don’t use saved yogurt from a prior batch (the generational method), as that introduces needless variables (and the saved starter suffices). Many (perhaps most) people are doing fine with the generational method, but I can’t conjecture any benefit for using a hybrid saved+gen method (and am not aware of anyone doing that).
re: «Also, is 2-4 tbsp’s of previous ok with 2 tbsp of inulin powder?»
Whatever MAC (microbiota-accessible carbohydrate, aka prebiotic fiber) the recipe calls for on the first batch, applies to all subsequent batches. I use 2 tbsp inulin per qt/L every time.
re: «What I’ve noticed in all my batches is that they resemble sloppy ice cream more than being able to stand up on their own or like high street yoghurt…»
If using just milk, that’s not surprising. Half&half (aka, half cream) is more likely to make a stand-up. Dr. Davis reports that if you must use just milk, heating it to pasteurization temp for 20 minutes, then cooling to ferment temp before adding starter, can thicken the result.
re: «I’m also very pleased to report that I am one of the 20% who experience much deeper sleep now & I don’t get sciatic nerve pulses down my leg anymore which would wake me up sometimes at night!»
Excellent. Thanks for the report.
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If I make my own Half & Half with heavy cream + milk, do I first need to heat the milk before mixing with the cream?
The ingredients for most organic half-and-half lists organic milk and organic cream. When I check the ingredients for the same brand organic cream it has Gellan Gum as an ingredient. Is this an issue?
Are there brands of half-and-half that you recommend?
How do you know if the process went astray and the microbes were killed off?
What are the macro nutrients for the finish product? If the fiber is eaten in the fermentation process are the carbs from fiber exclude from the macro counts?
Do you ever need to restart or will yogurt from a prior batch always work as the starter for the next batch?
Would it hurt to add 1 or 2 tablets with the yogurt to start future batches?
Thanks
Bob Smith wrote: «If I make my own Half & Half with heavy cream + milk, do I first need to heat the milk before mixing with the cream?»
No. I don’t.
Now, I do routinely [re]pasteurize, but whether starting from H&H, milk+cream, or powdered [WHOLE] milk is not a factor.
re: «When I check the ingredients for the same brand organic cream it has Gellan Gum as an ingredient. Is this an issue?»
Yes. I could mess up the ferment, and it may only be there for window-dressing, or even to prop up a cream drawn too thin. It’s at least not frankly gut-toxic like the carrageenan and polysorbates often seen.
re: «Are there brands of half-and-half that you recommend?»
That would depend on where you are, and I have no access to membership details. The TLD of the email address I can see implies that you are in Montenegro, and I suspect that’s not the case.
re: «How do you know if the process went astray and the microbes were killed off?»
Here are couple of checklists that might help.
re: «What are the macro nutrients for the finish product?»
Here are my guesses.
re: «Do you ever need to restart or will yogurt from a prior batch always work as the starter for the next batch?»
If you are using the generational method, there are any number of things that could wreck a batch for use as future starters.
I personally make this issue moot by dedicating most or all of the initial batch as frozen starter: as ice cubes, bagged, labeled & slowly thawed for use, 1 cube per qt. or L.
re: «Would it hurt to add 1 or 2 tablets with the yogurt to start future batches?»
It’s an expense for no gain. The CFUs in one tablet are trivial compared to a tablespoon of live yogurt. If your generational starter has gotten week, and especially if it has acquired ‘unauthorized’ microbes, you need to start over.
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Ok, so this is a mono culture, what about adding other cultures? I make a lot of fermented vegetable, fruits, etc. plus another full fat yogurt I like with a capsule of the probiotic, incubate in a shot glass with cream over night and ferment for 12 hours. How would one know if adding other cultures would be competing with L. Reutier ?
Liz Brown wrote: «…what about adding other cultures?»
It depends on the culture(s), and your generational process model.
When I make a progurt blend, I innoculate from separate {saved, frozen, slowly-thawed} starters from dedicated starter batches. Even so, a blend requires some commonality of substrate, temp & time. I don’t try to carry a blend forward (generational method)
re: «…and ferment for 12 hours.»
The benefits of the program yogurts (and this is part of why I personally refer to them as progurts) are due to the impressive CFUs achieved per final portion, and with the program strains, that requires 36 hours. The recipe isn’t so much making yogurt as it is making commensal bacteria and their by-products.
Some additional traditional cultures might actually be dangerous over 36h. Some might be killed by the bacteriocin properties of some program strains. Adding any yeast would of course result in alcohol, resulting in who-knows-what.
re: «How would one know if adding other cultures would be competing with L. Reutier ?»
That too. Even with the original Biogaia® Gastrus®based recipe, we’re starting with two L.r. strains, and if using a generational technique, the exact balance of ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938 over generations hasn’t been nailed down. But because there are people getting prompt benefits, that wane in a few days off the yogurt, any unfavorable shift would be noticed, and they aren’t reporting problems, over dozens of generations.
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Hello,
I tried making the yogurt using heavy cream only. Per the instructions in the book, I did not preheat it. It turned out smelling very yeast-like and looked like there was mold on top. I threw it away.
I will try again using the half and half. Does anyone else preheat it before adding the probiotics and starch?
Thanks!
Mandie Kolarik wrote: «I tried making the yogurt using heavy cream only.»
Did the Ingredients list include only Cream?
In the US, far too many cream and HWC products include added thickeners that are unsuited for human consumption in any case (such as carrageenan & polysorbate 80), but which could also have unpredictable consequences in fermentation.
I haven’t personally tried making a yogurt with plain cream, but have used it, +milk, to make my own H&H, and that works.
re: «It turned out smelling very yeast-like and looked like there was mold on top.»
Here are checklists for success and problems. Have you verified what temperature your device actually runs at?
re: «Does anyone else preheat it before adding the probiotics and starch?»
I fully [re]pasteurize the dairy, with the prebiotic whisked in, due to my incubator not being able to cold-start, and out of habit from when I was using raw goat milk. For any pre-heat, a critical step is to re-cool the dairy to ±5°F (2.8°C) of ferment temp before adding the starter (or, on the high side, the starter will be killed).
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I was only cream.
I just tried again with half and half, potato starch and Osfortis. I also heated and cooled this batch. It looks like the picture you linked for the first batch syndrome. So I’m going to try to use that for another batch. I did make it in the instant pot on the yogurt setting, which I wonder if it was too high. I might try using the warm setting as someone else here mentioned.
Any other suggestions? I really want to get this in my daily routine.
Mandie Kolarik wrote: «I was only cream.»
Great. That rules out one confounder.
re: «I just tried again with half and half, potato starch and Osfortis. I also heated and cooled this batch. It looks like the picture you linked for the first batch syndrome.»
What do you mean by heated and cooled? Heated what? To what temp? For how long? Re-cooled to what temp before adding the Osfortis?
re: «I did make it in the instant pot on the yogurt setting, which I wonder if it was too high.»
Have you ever run a ‘batch’ that is just water, and used a probe thermometer to check the temp? Some of these not-so-smart pots are pretty incompetent at yogurt making, particularly at non-traditional temps.
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I basically used the yogurt instructions for the instant pot. So used the boil feature to repasturize it, let it cool in a cold water sink for 15 minutes – usually gets down do less than 100 degrees when doing this. Then added in the culture and potato starch before using the yogurt setting on my instant pot. I think it was 110 degrees when I water tested it but I can check again. I honestly didn’t worry too much as someone else had told me they make it on their instant pot on the yogurt setting with no problems.
Mandie Kolarik wrote: «I basically used the yogurt instructions for the instant pot.»
That would be for conventional yogurt, at conventional yogurt temp, on conventional yogurt substrate and for {the way-to-short} conventional yogurt ferment times — little to none of which applies to program ‘progurts”. The goal here is to grow CFUs, not to make yogurt.
re: «So used the boil feature to repasturize it, let it cool in a cold water sink for 15 minutes – usually gets down do less than 100 degrees when doing this.»
I do that too, but with the prebiotic pre-mixed in, 180-190°F for 10 min, sink chill to target temp+2°F, add starter, move to pre-warmed incubator … for 36h.
re: «I think it was 110 degrees when I water tested it but I can check again.»
That’s too hot for for L.reuteri progurt. 108°F is too hot. I had to retire our original not-so-smart port because its {undocumented} yogurt cycle was found to run between 100-115°F.
But perhaps another issue is “I think” … if you don’t know, you don’t know, and people have reported all sorts of minor to major temp discrepancies with these under-documented programmable pots. Run a water-only test and check with a probe thermometer.
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Here’s my experience so far:
Before my Gastrus tablets were delivered (took a while) I tried using “SuperSmart L.Bacillus Reuteri” (5B CFU / 2tabs) tablets. This result of this batch was rather curdy, with a very strong blue-cheesey aroma and flavor – however, consuming it didn’t seem to do any harm. I’m not sure if this is a different strain of LBR than the Gastrus, or if I did something wrong. I also use potato starch and fermented for about 40 hrs.
After my Gastrus tablets arrived, I’ve used those and I switched to using inulin.
I’m using my InstaPot at Warm at 104 deg. for 24 hours — I have found no benefit in increasing this time beyond this. The yoghurt tastes great and is as thick as sour cream. (As stated by others re: “first batch syndrome”, subsequent batches have been thicker and consistently good.)
Currently I’m using a quart of (cow’s) half&half, and 2 cups of goat’s milk — I plan on experimenting on increasing the amount of goat’s milk as much as I can while still getting a thick enough consistency.
I’m curious about the other strain, so one day I may try the Smart brand again and see what kind of results I get — anyone else try a brand of LBR other than the Gastrus?
Michael Robin wrote: «…I tried using “SuperSmart L.Bacillus Reuteri”…»
The label for that does not disclose the strain. Have you been able to learn it? Based on their cites, it might be NCIMB 30242 (aka UALre-16). If so, it’s also available as Life Extension Florassist® Heart Health.
Entirely apart from outcome-as-yogurt, health effects appear to vary greatly by strain, with some widely available being semi-useless. ‘30242 may have benefits.
re: «…Warm at 104 deg. for 24 hours — I have found no benefit in increasing this time beyond this.…»
What benefit is being used as the benchmark? The point of the recipe isn’t yogurt per se; it’s growing ample CFUs, which might peak somewhere between 32 and 40 hours.
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> What benefit is being used as the benchmark? The point of the recipe isn’t yogurt per se; it’s growing ample CFUs
My entry was already long… But sure, agreed.
I meant:
(a) No further benefit from a texture/thickness point-of-view
(b) My first batches were about 40hrs and didn’t come out great, but I was using the SuperSmart strain and pot.starch rather than inulin, and I may have done something else wrong
(c) I’ve felt some positive health benefits even with the 24hrs, and wanted instant (well 24hrs) gratification, so I just haven’t tried the longer time again yet.
I just started a new batch, and will try for a higher CFU w/ ~36 hrs and see how things turn out.
I followed step by step with the directions given and the yogurt is very watery… I crushed up the 10 tablets of the gastrus, added two table spoons of Inulin, and used one quart of half and half. I have the luvele yogurt maker and had it at 100 degrees for 36 hours. Then put the yogurt in the refrigerator for 24 hours.
Herschel Johnson wrote: «I followed step by step with the directions given and the yogurt is very watery……»
That’s actually fairly typical for a tablet-started batch, and has come to known as “first batch syndrome”. There’s a photo you should be able to see in this Inner Circle forum basenote.
You can drain off the whey (watery) fraction and save it for use as starter. Consume the rest. The whey can be frozen as ice cubes, slowly thawed, one per quart\litre of future batches.
Here are some additional success and trouble checklists.
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I have an Instant Pot but it says the medium temp on the yogurt setting will go up to 109*. The video I watched said you really shouldn’t go over 106*. Is there a preferred product out there to make this yogurt? Thank you in advance for your response.
Don’t use the “Yogurt” setting — try the “Warm” setting, and choose Custom temperature, and set it to 104 deg. Works great for me!
(This feature may depend on your model?)
MsDasher wrote: «Is there a preferred product out there to make this yogurt?»
Here are some general tips on device selection: Progurt Maker Selection
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I’m confused. I bought a sous vide. So do I put the yogurt in quart size jars with the lids on immersed in water? Do I heat up the water to 100° before I put the jars in or do I put the jars in the cold water And then count 30 to 36 hours from when temp gets up to 100°?? Can I put it in one big jar or is it better to put in smaller jars? Help?
Diane Graf wrote: «I bought a sous vide.»
What type (immersion, stick, etc.), brand and model?
And do you also have a digital probe thermometer?
re: «So do I put the yogurt in quart size jars with the lids on immersed in water?»
This sounds like some sort of water bath sous vide setup. The yogurt goes in the jars, full to perhaps 80%. Cap them loosely. Fill the water up to the yogurt line or just above.
re: «Do I heat up the water to 100° before I put the jars in or do I put the jars in the cold water»
You can, and it has some advantages. In any case, make your first ‘batch’ plain water (in the jars), and non-preheated tape water (in the bath). Run this for at least 12 hours to check that the device program is working as expected, you know how long the cold-start warm-up is, your verify that the programmed temp is the real mix temp, and you observe how tightly that target temp is regulated.
re: «And then count 30 to 36 hours from when temp gets up to 100°??»
The recipes have never clarified that, and it doesn’t seem to be a major deal. In my personal process, I warm start, so I am timing the 36 hours at target temp end-to-end.
re: «Can I put it in one big jar or is it better to put in smaller jars?»
Your choice, although I’d tend to avoid using a vat in which the mix is over 8 inches deep or so. By fermenting in smaller jars, they can get labeled and go directly into the fridge, whereas in larger vessels, you’ll need to decant.
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I have a question on Supergut SIBO yogurt. The website recipe starts with BioGaia Gastrus tablets as the starter, fermenting at 100 deg F for 36 hours. The Supergut book however, uses BioGaia Gastrus tablets, L. gasseri, and B. coagulans for the starter, recommending 106 deg F for 36 hours. Are these both correct? Or is one recipe preferred over the other? I’ve been using the website recipe but am not sure if I am gaining all of the benefits stated for the Supergut SIBO yougur. Thank you.
C2Rower wrote: «…Supergut SIBO yogurt. The website recipe…»
Where seen? As far as I know, the SIBO yogurt recipe has not been published on the Blog. The recipe as provided on the Inner Circle site is the same as the SG book recipe: triple-starter, higher temp.
re: «…starts with BioGaia Gastrus tablets as the starter, fermenting at 100 deg F for 36 hours.»
That describes just the L.r. progurt recipe, and not the SIBO recipe, although Gastrus®-based L.r.. is part of the SIBO triplet.
re: «The Supergut book however, uses BioGaia Gastrus tablets, L. gasseri, and B. coagulans for the starter, recommending 106 deg F for 36 hours.»
The higher temp is a balance bargain, as the coagulans would really prefer 115-122°F, and the L.r. starts to conk out above 108°F.
re: «Or is one recipe preferred over the other?»
Horses for courses; the SIBO progurt is currently the preferred initial approach to addressing SIBO. The now-classic L.r. progurt is a dandy all-purpose, or specific-benefits brew. What is it that you are seeking to accomplish?
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Rather than starting with uncultured dairy, can I grow the L.reu culture on top of an existing yogurt substrate such as goat kefir? E.g., bring the kefir up to 104 degrees with the added L.reu. strain?
Michael Robin wrote: «Rather than starting with uncultured dairy, can I grow the L.reu culture on top of an existing yogurt substrate such as goat kefir? E.g., bring the kefir up to 104 degrees with the added L.reu. strain?»
That might be dangerous as stated, and likely suboptimal even with extra steps for safety.
A kefir or live-culture yogurt is going to have live cultures, of course, which:
a. aren’t necessarily going to make a safe product over 36 hours, and
b. are going to compete with the L.reuteri unpredictably.
If you re-pasteurize the product (take it to 180°F/82°C for 10 minutes), then re-cool to a verified 100°F/38°C, it might work, if the prior now-dead microbes left enough carbohydrate substrate — and don’t forget to add the prebiotic extender.
On the whole, buying some fresh half&half seems less trouble and more economical.
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Yeah, that’s what I figured — just asking on the off-chance I could start w/something I already liked, and make it even better :) I just need to find a local source of goat cream or h&h…
Michael Robin wrote: «I just need to find a local source of goat cream or h&h…»
Goat cream can be very hard to find.
An alternative is to use powdered goat milk, reconstituted to H&H consistency. I have used Mt. Capra WHOLE (not the more common NONFAT) for this, and it can be mail-ordered.
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Thank you for your response Bob Niland. I realize I have been making L. reuteri yogurt and not SIBO yogurt. Now, time to purchase the additional starter bacteria and make SuperGut SIBO yogurt.
I sterilize my spoon and jars, but I realized that inulin powder might have bad bacteria on it that prohibits L. reuteri growth. Do I need to sterilize inulin with boiling water? If I do that, do I reduce the effectiveness of inulin? (If I heat raw potato starch instead of inulin in a pot with water, it will become like a glue!)
Have you ever had a problem with bad bacteria on prebiotics keeping L. reuteri from growing well? Maybe I don’t need worry about it at all and I could just add it as it is?
Thank you for your help!!!
Mary Smith wrote: «… realized that inulin powder might have bad bacteria on it that prohibits L. reuteri growth.»
That doesn’t sound quite correct. People have been concerned with possible contamination that could result in unwanted microbes growing in the yogurt. This seems to rarely even be a suspect in failed batches. Inulin is sold at room temp, usually stored at room temp after opening, and I’ve never seen any indications of contamination (I use NOW Foods brand).
re: «Do I need to sterilize inulin with boiling water? If I do that, do I reduce the effectiveness of inulin?»
You can, and I can’t really guess how it might change the inulin. Actually, in my personal process, I re-pasteurize the half&half, with the inulin mixed in, all then cooled to ferment temp, and get nice reliable batches.
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I was told that the yogurt should not be blended, even tho I’m using an immersion blender for maybe 10-15secs. Have you seen that it causes too much friction/heat for the bacteria? Trying to get rid of the curd like texture.
Lara Neal wrote: «I was told that the yogurt should not be blended, even tho I’m using an immersion blender for maybe 10-15secs. Have you seen that it causes too much friction/heat for the bacteria?»
The program advice is: don’t blend.
My presumption has been that there are two potential problems:
1. physical maceration of the microbes, and
2. local heating at the blades,
if not both.
The stouter blenders (Vitamix, Ninja) can generate so much heat that you can actually cook a soup in them.
re: «Trying to get rid of the curd like texture.»
Curds are not expected in subsequent batches started from saved yogurt (or even just saved whey fraction). I never get curds, except when starting [over] from tablets or capsules, and when I do have to start from the retail probiotic, my first batch becomes dedicated starter ice cubes.
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Greetings.
About 10hrs into fermenting reuteri with clear whey from a previous batch donated by friend, have tiny dark specks, pepper like, on surface. Is it OK ?
Many thanksfor comments.
Evelyne
evelyne tebrook wrote: «…have tiny dark specks, pepper like, on surface.…»
Scoop them off. If they had no roots/tendrils descending into the mix, it’s probably just opportunistic environmental microbes that alighted during prep. Ferment to completion.
If you see nothing suspicious deeper in the mix, it’s likely safe for consumption, and you can probably use the bottom layer for future starter.
Not being there, and lacking info on a number of other aspects of the prep, there is of course no way for me to be sure. Here are some additional tips.
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can I use full fat coconut milk? Im sensitive to dairy and break out
Johanna Bernardy wrote: «can I use full fat coconut milk?»
Yes, but it’s much more challenging, and Dr. Davis hasn’t posted {on the blog} the latest thinking on a non-dairy yogurt base.
re: «Im sensitive to dairy and break out»
Odds are surprisingly high that the problem isn’t the dairy per se, but until resolved, it is a real problem.
Has your reaction been isolated to one or more of:
☐ lactose
☐ casein beta A1
☐ whey
☐ junk added to retail dairy
☐ added hormones with industrial dairy herds?
Most people assume their apparent dairy intolerance is “lactose intolerance” which it might be, but often is not. This can largely be ruled out by challenging with well-aged fermented dairy (and the probiotic yogurts here are well-aged). In aged ferments, the lactose will have been metabolized by the bacteria, and is expected to be nil in the final product. Even if it is the lactose, is one naturally reactive, or does it indicate a dysbiosis that needs to be addressed for wider reasons?
The next suspect is the casein beta A1 protein common in many bovine breeds (and predominant in the US). This can be ruled out by challenging with A2 dairy, which would be any goat or sheep milk, and if specific A2 bovine dairy is available in your market.
Dairy whey seems less likely to provoke allergy-like reactions, but does provoke insulin in some people. This again would be expected to be absent in well-aged cheeses, and if you get any whey fraction in yogurt, it can often be drained off (and saved as starter, or discarded).
Other aspects of the dairy industry need a ponder. Antibiotics, growth hormones, amendments in retail products (preservatives, emulsifiers, inept fortifications) are all on this list. If Organic pastured dairy is available, it would be worth a challenge once everything else has been ruled out.
Being the milk of a lactating female mammal, there’s not much we can do about the native hormones.
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Choose a canned coconut Milk (never the thinner products in cartons) that contains nothing but coconut and water, with no thickeners or mixing agents such as xanthan gum or gellan gum—guar gum is okay, however—because these additives provoke separation upon fermentation. Because coconut milk (sometimes called coconut cream) has the tendency to separate into water and oil, several additional steps are required to obtain a uniform end result. Unlike dairy, which we do not preheat (if it’s already pasteurized or ultra-pasteurized), we do preheat coconut milk. The key is to use the prebiotic fiber and the thickener guar gum to keep the milk from separating. Don’t let the use of sugar in this recipe alarm you—the microbes consume the sugar and there should be little to none left after fermentation.
Following is the recipe for making coconut milk yogurt with L. reuteri as an illustration of the process; if you choose another species or a mixed culture, use the same temperature settings as specified in the dairy-based yogurt recipes for the included strains. Also, be sure to ferment coconut milk yogurt for 48 hours to obtain a thicker, richer end result.
Note: that the blending step precedes addition of the bacteria because the blending process can kill microbes. We therefore add microbes as the last step before fermentation.
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1 (13.5-ounce) can coconut milk
3/4 teaspoon guar gum
2 tablespoons sugar
1 tablespoon raw potato starch
1–2 tablespoons L. reuteri yogurt, curds and/or whey, or 10 Gastrus tablets, crushed
1. In a small or medium-sized saucepan, heat coconut milk over me- dium heat to 180°F or until it just begins to boil; remove from heat. Allow to cool 5 minutes.
2. Add guar gum, sugar, and potato starch to the cooled coconut milk and blend with a stick blender or pour these ingredients into a blender; blend for a minimum of 1 minute or until the mixture thickens to the approximate thickness of heavy cream.
3. Allow the mixture to cool to 100°F (or room temperature), then mix in the L. reuteri yogurt. Ferment for 48 hours at 100°F.
Hi Bob, with regards to the ”starter” (1/3 cup of freshly made L, reuteri yogurt put aside in the refrigerator to inoculate next batch), how many days can it be kept in the refrigerator before it really needs to be used to start a new batch? Sometimes it needs to be left for a few days before I have time to a new batch.
One other thing, I’ve heard from other consumers is that once the L. reuteri bacteria run out of food to feed on in the yogurt then they start to die off. If that is true, would it be possible in your opinion to then add a little bit of milk with say 1/2 teaspoon of inulin, to improve the life of the bacteria in the ”starter”?
Thank you and look forward to hearing from you,
Alistair
Alistair Burns wrote: «…”starter” (1/3 cup of freshly made L, reuteri yogurt put aside in the refrigerator to inoculate next batch), how many days can it be kept in the refrigerator before it really needs to be used to start a new batch?»
I don’t use the generational starter technique, so I don’t actually know. Here are my conjectures. A full, sealed never-opened portion of the yogurt might have a chilled shelf life of 3 months. Opened, it drops to 2 months, perhaps less.
This is part of why I rely on frozen starter, as it has an indefinite shelf life. Whenever I make a first-batch, most of it (and all of any whey) goes into one or two ice cube trays, frozen, bagged and marked. One cube per quart is slowly thawed for starter use. I’ve been trying the various strains that have arisen in the program, and now have starter going back several years.
re: «One other thing, I’ve heard from other consumers is that once the L. reuteri bacteria run out of food to feed on in the yogurt then they start to die off. If that is true, would it be possible in your opinion to then add a little bit of milk with say 1/2 teaspoon of inulin, to improve the life of the bacteria in the ”starter”?»
Early in the “progurt” era, I wondered about that, but don’t now. If the starter needs to be re-inoculated, it needs to be replaced.
For the strains presently used, the studies to date suggest that they reach peak CFUs just above 36 hours. I’ve accidently run batches to 54 hours with no apparent problems. Yes, there is some die-off, but there are zillions of live critters remaining, and the expired ones don’t harm the process.
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Can you include additional cultures while making the yogurt? Or will that disrupt the development of the l reuteri?
Daniel Cocks wrote: «Can you include additional cultures while making the yogurt?»
It depends; what did you have in mind?
Some conjectured blends raise significant questions about ideal temperature, time & substrate.
The program SIBO yogurt does exactly that, resulting in a yogurt with a different goal. It uses a carefully-chosen bargain temp.
People are also making Gastrus® (L.reuteri) : Yakult (L.casei) blends. I make this routinely, at 102-103°F.
In addition to what effects might be expected, a consideration arises for starter. I always make my blends using a slowly-thawed ice cube of each component yogurt. Using a generational method — batch-to-batch saved production blend yogurt as starter, there could be relative-population drifts over generations. I doubt that any CFU studies run to date have looked into that pathway, and I have no guesses.
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lactobacilus paracasei, lactobacilus acidophilus, and bifidobacterium…190mg live organisms, 4 billion CFU
Daniel Cocks wrote: «lactobacilus paracasei, lactobacilus acidophilus, and bifidobacterium…190mg live organisms, 4 billion CFU»
Lactobacillus paracasei – is one the program is tracking, but for which no specific outsize benefits are so far noted. It’s in BiotiQuest® Sugar Shift, but even their page on it doesn’t detail the role of the L.p.
Lactobacillus acidophilus – is a normal yogurt microbe, with no outstanding health benefits.
bifidobacterium – is a genus. Knowing the species & strain would be necessary for any conjectures at all.
Chances are these all grow decently at the L.r. yogurt temp, but I’m not instantly seeing a compelling case for using them in a blend with L.r., and have even less insight into what happens over time if the result is used as starter. They might make a fine yogurt independently.
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I made my first batch in a Salton yogurt maker that I dug out from the basement. I have no idea what temperature it operates at. I used 5 crushed tablets, 2 tablespoons of inulin, and about 32 oz of organic half and half. It took almost 36 hours to get to a firm consistency.
My second batch was without any tablets but using a 1/4 cup of the first batch with 2 Tbsp of inulin and 32 oz of half and half. This batch was very firm at around 18 hours and was ready to move to the fridge.
My 3rd test batch was just in a jar (no yogurt maker), with 1/2 cup starter, 32 oz organic half and half and 2 Tbsp of inulin. At 30 hours, it was beautiful and firm and ready to be moved to the refrigerator.
New batches in the yogurt maker are now taking less than 24 hours to be very firm.
The yogurt is creamy and delicious and I just eat it plain. If I make smoothies, I add some more inulin to the smoothie. (banana + frozen strawberries + some whole earth monk fruit and stevia sweetener). The kids love the smoothies.
Jawad Akhtar wrote: «I made my first batch in a Salton yogurt maker that I dug out from the basement. I have no idea what temperature it operates at.»
Sounds like the temperature was close enough, but I do recommend that with a new or uncertain device, it’s worthwhile to run a simulated batch consisting of water only, and check the water with a separate probe thermometer. Run it for at least 4 hours, but 12 hours can confirm that the run-time is of practical length.
re: «My second batch was without any tablets but using a 1/4 cup of the first batch with 2 Tbsp of inulin and 32 oz of half and half.»
If 36 hours is not a problem, 1 Tbsp of saved yogurt starter per quart suffices.
re: «This batch was very firm at around 18 hours and was ready to move to the fridge.»
Pulling it that early is not recommended. The goal isn’t a firm yogurt. The goal is CFU counts, and the major gains are made in the last few hours (30-36h). See: Doubling time: bacterial “compound interest”
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Thank you very much for your help with this Bob!
The yogurt maker is like a tub that has a compartment area which holds the 6 small glass pots with a lid on top of the device.
Yes it’s a cold start process. The milk is not cold cold but room temperature.
According to the info in the blog, the target temp should be 100F correct?
I don’t know the exact time it took to reach 100F but definitely more than 6 hours and possibly up to 12 hours? If that’s the case then theoretically the bacteria would only be fermenting at 100F for possibly 24 hours out of the 36 hours?
Is that a problem for the bacteria or yogurt making process?
Are you implying that the bacteria need to ferment at 100F for a full 36 hours, irrespective of the warm up stage?
I don’t know how else to start the bacteria yogurt fermentation process other than a cold start?
Perhaps what I could do, is to make the whole process longer eg 48 hours, that way it would include the necessary hours for the yogurt to reach desired temp of 100F and maintain it for a further 36 hours? What are your thoughts?
Yes the glass pots before were tightly capped.
Look forward to your reply. Kind regards, Alistair
Alistair Burns wrote: «I don’t know the exact time it took to reach 100F but definitely more than 6 hours and possibly up to 12 hours?»
I’m tempted to say “yikes”. This is an issue that insofar as I recall, has not had any discussion. The recipe above just says “Some method of maintaining at 100 degrees F” … (and that’s similar to other statements of the recipe.
re: «If that’s the case then theoretically the bacteria would only be fermenting at 100F for possibly 24 hours out of the 36 hours?»
Yes, and further, it would have been spending considerable time below 95°F, with possible other consequences hard to predict.
re: «Is that a problem for the bacteria or yogurt making process? … Are you implying that the bacteria need to ferment at 100F for a full 36 hours, irrespective of the warm up stage?»
I can state with some confidence: I don’t know. I’ve been doing only warm-starts ever since my early misadventures with a not-so-smart pot.
re: «I don’t know how else to start the bacteria yogurt fermentation process other than a cold start?»
The dairy component could be warmed to near target temp prior to adding starter.
re: «Perhaps what I could do, is to make the whole process longer eg 48 hours,…»
That would make me nervous, as it might encourage opportunistic environmental microbes, particular fungi, that prefer room temp.
re: «Yes the glass pots before were tightly capped.»
The recipes don’t address that either, but it appears to have some disadvantages.
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