Making yogurt out of Lactobacillus reuteri is really a simple, straightforward process that I have been talking about for the past year. But some people get tripped up on the details, lamenting the thin, sour, or discolored end-result they obtain.
So here is the simple recipe, step-by-step to minimize your potential for making mistakes. Truly: I have made something like 60-70 batches with not a single failure. You can do this, too.
Why do this? Well, if you are new to this conversation, you will be excited to know that the yogurt is really not about yogurt, as conventional yogurts achieve none of these effects. This “yogurt” fermented with two unconventional strains of Lactobacillus reuteri achieve effects that include:
- Smoothing of skin wrinkles due to an explosion of dermal collagen
- Accelerated healing, cutting healing time in almost half
- Reduced appetite, the so-called “anorexigenic” effect—food still tastes good, but you are almost completely indifferent to temptation
- Increased testosterone in men
- Increased libido
- Preservation of bone density—Obtaining L. reuteri is one of the most important steps you can take to prevent osteoporosis
- Deeper sleep—though this benefit is enjoyed by less than 20% of people
- Increased empathy and desire for connectedness with other people
- Probiotic effects that may include prevention of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO
The majority of benefits are a result of L. reuteri‘s ability to provoke hypothalamic release of oxytocin, a hormone that is proving to be the key to substantial age-reversal and health effects.
You will need:
–Glass or ceramic bowl or other vessel large enough to hold at least one quart of liquid
–2 tablespoons of prebiotic fiber such as inulin or raw potato starch
–Starter: Either 10 tablets BioGaia Gastrus or 2 tablespoons previous batch of L. reuteri yogurt (whey or curds or mixture of both)
–1 quart of half-and-half or other liquid (to make with coconut milk, several additional steps and ingredients are required)
–Some method of maintaining at 100 degrees F
Yields: Around 8 one-half-cup servings
Make sure your bowl or other vessel is clean after washing with hot soap and water:
Add 2 level tablespoons of prebiotic fiber:
Add 10 crushed tablets of Gastrus (that provide 200 million CFUs of L. reuteri, a relatively small number). Crush the tablets with a mortar and pestle or by putting into a plastic bag and crushing with a rolling pin or heavy bottle/glass until reduced to a coarse powder. (The tablets are flavored with mint and mandarin, but the taste does not show in the final product, nor in subsequent batches.) Once you have made your first batch, make subsequent batches with two tablespoons of the prior batch, rather than crushed tablets; it can be any mixture of whey or solid curds, as both contain L. reuteri.
Mix either crushed tablets or 2 tablespoons prior yogurt with prebiotic fiber:
Add a little, e.g., 2 tablespoons, of your choice of dairy; I used organic half-and-half, as this yields the best texture (and, of course, we NEVER limit fat in the Wheat Belly lifestyle). Make a slurry by stirring; this prevents clumping of the prebiotic fiber. (Whole milk—NEVER low- or non-fat—yields a thinner end result, while cream yields something close to butter, too thick for my taste.)
Stir in remainder of half-and-half or other liquid:
Cover lightly with plastic wrap or other means. Ferment by maintaining at 100 degrees F for 36 hours. Prolonged fermentation—far longer than the 6 or so hours of commercial yogurts that explain why the bacterial counts are so low–in the presence of prebiotic fibers yields far higher bacterial counts in the tens to hundreds of billions per serving.
I used a basin-type sous vide device, but you can use a stick sous vide, yogurt maker with adjustable temperature control, or Instant Pot. (Just be careful with the Instant Pot or yogurt makers without adjustable temperature, as they are set to be compatible with conventional yogurt microorganisms and are often too hot and kill L. reuteri; if your device heats to 110 degrees F or higher, it will likely kill L. reuteri and you should find an alternative means of heating. If in doubt, turn on your device and measure the temperature reached with a thermometer first before you ruin a batch.) Keep your materials out of the way of fans, heating/cooling vents, or other sources of air contamination.
The end-result for me is rich, thick, and delicious, better tasting—and with far higher probiotic bacterial counts—than anything you can buy in a store. Once refrigerated, the “yogurt” is so thick that it can stand upright on a plate:
Serve with fresh or frozen berries, grainless granola, squirt of liquid stevia, or your choice of fruit or natural sweetener.
Does the yogurt batch need to be at least 100 degrees? Our instant pot goes from either 86-92 in the “less” setting for yogurt or a “normal” yogurt setting heating to 96-109. I’m fearing the 109 might get us too close…
Andy Parriman wrote: «Does the yogurt batch need to be at least 100 degrees?»
The optimal temp for it might be 97°F, but in my experience, it does OK from 95°F to 106°F (106 being the bargain temp for the SIBO blend). Below 95 risks contamination from room temp opportunists. Above 108 gets into die-off for L.r..
re: «Our instant pot goes from either 86-92 in the “less” setting for yogurt or a “normal” yogurt setting heating to 96-109.»
Does it have any custom mode(s) where an arbitrary temp & time can be set?
In any case, run a couple of water-only ‘batches’, with a separate probe thermometer, and see what average and limit temps it actually reaches.
If you decide to replace it, ☑here are some tips.
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I’ve been making the L reuteri yogurt for a year. I made a batch this week and forgot to put in the Inulin so it failed into curds and whey. Can I use this for starter or should I throw out all of it?
Mandersonaz wrote: «I made a batch this week and forgot to put in the Inulin so it failed into curds and whey.»
That’s really interesting. You may be the first person to report running that particular experiment.
re: «Can I use this for starter or should I throw out all of it?»
Unless there are signs of massive die-off, the curds may be suitable for consumption, and the why for starter (perhaps some frozen as ice cubes for future use).
I’ve never been completely clear on the role of the inulin in the recipe (although that’s what I use). Based on published science, it’s a less-favored substrate for L.r., esp. compared to lactose, which is prized L.r. chow.
So my conjecture is that the L.r.s consume the lactose first (which is a desired result), then turn to the inulin. This allows a ferment to be long enough to make the lactose disappear, maximize the CFUs, and provides a buffer, so that the now-huge colony doesn’t just collapse.
So what exactly happens in a no-inulin scenario probably depends to a great extent on:
🦠 starting CFUs (retail vs. saved starter),
🌡 ferment temp relative to optimal for strains,
🍭 lactose fraction of the dairy, and
⏰ ferment duration (including cold-start vs. warm-start).
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That’s exactly what happened to me and I posted a question on June 3rd…no one replied.
I wasn’t sure on what to do so I started a new batch with the tablets.
What I found strange was the fizzy taste that was quite strong and not pleasant, I ended up throwing it away.
jolanda lovati wrote: «…I posted a question on June 3rd…no one replied.»
I’m not sure how that got overlooked, but it did.
re: «What I found strange was the fizzy taste that was quite strong and not pleasant, I ended up throwing it away.»
That almost sounds like a yeast got into the batch, and out-gassed CO₂ (carbonating it) while also making alcohol (the strong?).
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Does the type of milk matter? Can I use UHT pasteurized organic whole milk to make this? I attempted to make the Reuteri yogurt a few years ago and I thought it was specifically stated not to use UhT dairy but I do not see that now.
Sheila Simpson wrote: «Does the type of milk matter?»
There appear to be both brand-to-brand and seasonal differences in yogurt results. Once beyond first-batch-syndrome, the presentation of the completed yogurt seems to be sufficiently consistent.
re: «Can I use UHT pasteurized organic whole milk to make this?»
Whole milk (of any type) is apt to produce a slightly thinner yogurt vs. half&half. But I would not expect a great difference between UHT, retail pasteurized, home-pasteurized{raw} milk or even milk reconstituted from powder.
The key thing is that it be full-fat (whole) and contain as the only ingredients: milk, or milk&cream — no emulsifiers, thickeners, preservatives, flavorants, colorants, fortifications or other junk.
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I just made a new batch from the start (with crushed tablets and potato starch) in a 100 degree sous vide. After about 20 hours cooked, it has completely separated with whey in bottom half of jars. 1) is it safe to eat? 2) should I stir in the whey? And 3) is it ok to use for new starter for next batch? I have been making for months from a starter and never seen this result. Thanks
Jill St. John wrote: «…crushed tablets … After about 20 hours cooked, it has completely separated with whey in bottom half of jars.»
That sounds like the relatively common “first batch syndrome”. Expect it to not be present on the next batch, using starter from this batch.
See ☑these checklists for how to assess batch results, and resolve any problems.
re: «…is it ok to use for new starter for next batch?»
Unless there is suspicion of contamination, the whey fraction makes fine starter. Any not immediately needed can be frozen as ice cubes for use at any future date.
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I just made some of this yogurt with half & half it just finished. It’s clumpy & soupy after stirring. It’s not yogurt like at all. Looks more like curdled milk. I follow the directions. What might of happened? And is this safe to eat and use for my next batch?
Suzanne Zeinfeld wrote: «I just made some of this yogurt with half & half it just finished.»
What was the starter? (i.e. retail probiotic or earlier yogurt)
re: «It’s clumpy & soupy after stirring.»
The sounds like the common first batch syndrome which isn’t necessarily avoidable by any practical means.
See ⎆these checklists for more tips.
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It was my starter batch with the probiotic. I left it in the fridge while I was out of town and it looks better now but I don’t know if it’s edible or useful to make the next batch. It’s been almost 2 weeks now.
What is first batch syndrome?
I used a new LynTorin digital yogurt maker set to 100. I thought maybe it might be keeping inaccurate temperature?
So do I just make a new starter batch?
Thank you!
Suzanne Zeinfeld wrote: «What is first batch syndrome?»
Here’s a description with photo by an Inner Circle member. What’s drained-off makes excellent starter, and can be frozen as ice cubes for that purpose.
re: «I used a new LynTorin digital yogurt maker set to 100. I thought maybe it might be keeping inaccurate temperature?»
For new equipment, I always run a dummy batch of just water, and use a separate thermometer to verify the controller. I lately switched heaters on my rig, and the new one has thermal mass\inertia that causes the average temp to run +3°F above set point.
re: «So do I just make a new starter batch?»
Whenever there’s any doubt as to the genetics 🧬🦠☣ of any given batch, so to speak, that’s what I do.
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My first 3 or 4 batches were terribly curdled. I was using a sous vide with a clear tub in the kitchen. There may have been minimal light coming from a window I’m not sure. But I know that I kept everything the same just moved the container farther away from the window and since then my l reuteri yogurt has been absolutely perfect.
I didn’t use new culture I just used half whey half curds. All good and creamy now though.
Can I sub buttermilk for some of the half and half to make it less heavy? I tried goat milk and it worked well (50-50) but wonder about buttermilk.
Deborah Pastor wrote: «Can I sub buttermilk for some of the half and half to make it less heavy?»
I’ve not tried it, nor do I recall any reports from anyone who has. My instant reaction is: maybe not.
Is it fermented buttermilk, and if so does it still contain live cultures? If fermented, the pH may be a problem. If still containing live cultures, they’d have to be killed by [re]pasteurizing or they’d probably ruin the yogurt. In any case, the lactose would be reduced, leaving less for the L.reuts.
If non-fermented, the whole ingredients list would need a careful review.
re: «I tried goat milk and it worked well…»
It does, and I’ve used both fresh (pasteurized) and powdered (Mt.Capra WHOLE). With powdered, you can reconstitute to any desired viscosity.
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Hello Bob
I want to make Yogurt with a Probiotic Bacteria. I have read that the best thing to use as a Prebiotic is Glucose, but I can’t find Pure Glucose in any Online store, only Dextrose.
My question is
Do you know if Glucose and Dextrose is the same???
Will Dextrose also ferment as if it were glucose???
Thanks
Jorge Martinez wrote: «I have read that the best thing to use as a Prebiotic is Glucose…»
Glucose is not a prebiotic, of course. It’s a mono-saccharide carbohydrate.
It can work as a microbial growth medium, but requires a lot more precision, because you want to avoid either:
⚠ having too much left over, provoking blood sugar, or
⚠ substrate exhaustion, resulting in mass die-off of culture.
re: «…but I can’t find Pure Glucose in any Online store, only Dextrose.»
Dextrose might work, and I’ve also seen pure lactose in the regional “health food” stores.
re: «Will Dextrose also ferment as if it were glucose???»
Being D-glucose, there’s a decent chance, but I haven’t experimented with it. There’s also a question of plant source, as it might be from wheat, corn, potato or tapioca.
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Hello Bob
I think I have read on various sites on your website that less whey appears in subsequent batches when making the Yogurt.
For what reason is this??
The more Bacteria there are at the moment of the creation of the Yogurt, the less serum appears??
Thanks
Jorge Martinez wrote: «…less whey appears in subsequent batches when making the Yogurt. For what reason is this??»
In my batches, for #2 and beyond, there is almost no separation—nothing to drain off.
My presumption is that the amount of whey might actually be about the same, but is more fully incorporated into the yogurt structure.
re: «The more Bacteria there are at the moment of the creation of the Yogurt, the less serum appears??»
When using prior-batch yogurt as culture, the CFUs in the starter portion are orders of magnitude higher than in a few retail capsules or crushed tablets. 10 tablets of Gastrus® is 20 million CFUs. A tablespoon of saved yogurt might be 2 billion (100× more).
A theoretical confounder in ⎆my personal process, however, is that I routinely re-pasteurize the dairy (with the inulin mixed in). This tends to “denature” whey protein, and may also contribute to why I get so little of it.
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Hi Bob
For how many days does the yogurt last in good condition when refrigerated after its creation?
how long is it best to last the yogurt in terms of bacteria count and its beneficial properties?
Thanks
Jorge Martinez wrote: «For how many days does the yogurt last in good condition when refrigerated after its creation?»
At completion of the ferment, presuming the lids are on loosely during the ferment, I would just tighten & label them. I’d expect 30 days (one month) of fridge shelf life. I brew in a larger pot, then transfer to 12 fl.oz. Ball® jars, filled right up to the cap to eliminate an air gap.
Once opened, I expect 2 weeks of shelf life, given nominal stewardship:
☑ bottle out of fridge only long enough to get portion
☑ clean utensil(s) every time
☑ re-cap bottle promptly
☑ mind sources of iffy airflow while open (humidifiers, sneezes, etc.)
For use as starter, the yogurts can be frozen indefinitely. I use ice cube trays, then bagged & labeled.
You can also freeze the yogurt for later consumption, but it wrecks the consistency.
re: «how long is it best to last the yogurt in terms of bacteria count and its beneficial properties?»
I doubt anyone knows. The bacteria will continue to multiply in refrigeration (but not in freezing). I have no guesses as to rate.
Then there’s the question of why fermented dairy products go bad. Do they run out of substrate and die-off? Do opportunistic environment microbes gain a foothold? Dunno.
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I’m at my wits end with this process. Significant whey seperation with initial batch (probably amounting to 3/4 cup). Used sample toale a second batch and will less seperation, still probably over 1/2 cup of pure liquid and curds a far cry from the consistency of Greek yogurt. Going to try a third batch (using sample from the second) and see if I can get even less seperation. It shouldn’t take this many times to get the desired consistency. I had screwed on the lids on the initial batch. Could that then mess up subsequent batches?
John Campbell wrote: «I had screwed on the lids on the initial batch.»
I don’t have any data on exactly what that does to the ferment. In that scenario, the more usual outcome complaint is ruptured containers, popped lids, or overflows.
If you haven’t, be sure to see ⎆these checklists
re: «Could that then mess up subsequent batches?»
Before I could guess on that, I’d need to know what the lid status was for the second {separated} batch (and that various other suspects are ruled out).
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Hello,
after 4 successful batches using a few spoonful of the previous one, I accidentally forgot to add the inulin…. It came out like solid cottage cheese and much more whey separation. Still good after blending, but a little more cheesy and quite fizzy.
A new batch with all the ingredients (and 2 spoonful of the previous one) still produced similar results. What is the cause of the fizzy taste, can just leaving out inulin cause it? Shall I discard it?
Thank you.
In what device are you freezing the ice cubes ?
How do you assure non- contamination from the freezer or other items in it?
Coco WEWE wrote: «In what device are you freezing the ice cubes ?»
One of several old polyethylene one-piece trays.
re: «How do you assure non- contamination from the freezer or other items in it?»
Once frozen, the ice cubes are broken out into a freezer zip bag (one bag per strain). The trays are set in the dishwasher along with anything else that needs cleaning that day, then back into a cabinet kept closed.
I never see signs of contamination in dairy-based batches.
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Bob you wrote:
One of several old polyethylene one-piece trays.
Do you cover them or is the whey openly exposed to the air in the freezer?
One idea would be to put the one piece tray into a freezing zipper bag, To protect it against contamination and once frozen break up the ice cubes and put it into a freezing zipper bag
Do you think this would be necessary?
After some days of l reuteri and bacillus coaguans yogurt, i am endig up with a lot of bloating, heavy cnstipation and high readings of methane n aire 2. Is that rather due to
A) consumng too much yogurt per day
B) some inuline still in the yogurt (should I increase fermentation to 40h?
C) i didnt sterilze the yogurt pots in which I froze l reuteri starters, but had hemt thoroughly washed some days before and stored in board. Mayb cntnaion?
Whst should i do?
Coco WEWE wrote: «After some days of l reuteri and bacillus coaguans yogurt, i am endig up with a lot of bloating, heavy cnstipation and high readings of methane n aire 2.»
My instant guess is that if you have methanogenic SIBO, that response would be unsurprising. Constipation is specifically associated with methanogens, such as Archea.
Due to the limitations of this blog format (see closing remarks), I’m not sure I have the wider case context. Although I’ve not seen any reports from people consuming that specific combination of probiotic microbes, the reaction isn’t necessarily what I’d expect for someone who has implemented the Wheat Belly/Undoctored/Super /Gut prerequisites leading up to the full SIBO blend yogurt.
On constipation per se, you can check any program books you have, and back blog posts on the topic [⎆some search results].
re: «A) consumng too much yogurt per day»
How much? Current suggestion is no more than ½ cup per day, due to lack of data for extra benefit at higher CFUs, and thus desiring to limit needless excess dairy exposure.
re: «B) some inuline still in the yogurt (should I increase fermentation to 40h?»
The amount of inulin that might be left over in a portion is not expected to be much of a challenge. I’m periodically getting a full 5 grams of it in my daily smoothie. You could try taking some inulin alone as a challenge, and see if you get the same reaction.
On the 40hr idea, it’s also not wise to deliberately exhaust all the carbohydrate substrates in a ferment, as mass die-off might result … and a very unpleasant yogurt. Indeed, my personal view is that the role of the inulin, less preferred by the microbes, is to act as a buffer so that they can consume all of the lactose first, with no die-off risk. With that said, I have run L.r. batches to 48hr deliberately, and accidentally to 54hr, with no catastrophes. I’ve never a B.c. batch beyond 36hr.
re: «C) i didnt sterilze the yogurt pots in which I froze l reuteri starters, … Mayb cntnaion?»
That’s possible, but actually less likely with L.reuteri than with random yogurt cultures. L.r. is so effective as a bacteriocin that some researchers use it to clean their vats. Contamination usually presents with obvious spots on the top of the brew.
Meta comment:
This level of case detail is both beyond what the blog-comment format can effectively support, and also beyond the program resources available on the blog. Further, most of the replies to questions here these days are just from the “FAQ person” (me). I offer what insight I can, but the ⎆Inner Circle service is a more effective match.
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Well I do think it’s remaining Inulin: yesterday evening I consumed LR and BC yogurt and had heavy bloating during night. Today no yogurt and a lot less bloating.
I’ll ferment the next super sibo yougurt batch for about 40h and test it out, and also Inulin
Thank you for all those answers.
Bob you wrote:
My instant guess is that if you have methanogenic SIBO, that response would be unsurprising.
—
In other words, once you start L reuteri and bacillus coagulans yogurt (or just plain super sibo yogurt), It is somehow normal and common that people have digestive symptoms, such as bloating, constipation, et cetera, which is rather to be taken as a sign that those yogurts are doing their effect of killing off the unwanted bacteria and hence inducing some die of reaction.
Is that right ?
Coco WEWE wrote: «Do you cover them [the ice cube trays] or is the whey openly exposed to the air in the freezer?»
The tray is just set somewhere level in the freezer chest, typically overnight, uncovered. Its is then inserted into a labeled zip freezer bag and twisted to release the cubes. No contamination concerns have arisen.
re: «In other words, once you start L reuteri and bacillus coagulans yogurt (or just plain super sibo yogurt), It is somehow normal and common that people have digestive symptoms, such as bloating, constipation, et cetera, which is rather to be taken as a sign that those yogurts are doing their effect of killing off the unwanted bacteria and hence inducing some die of reaction.»
If you get unwelcome reactions, particularly in response to the SIBO blend, then the yogurt has found work to do, there’s some reaction to the dairy, or possibly some reaction to any residual inulin. The latter two can be challenged independently to rule them in or out.
Perhaps because I had been following the program gut flora cultivation suggestions since 2014, by the time I first tried the SIBO blend, I had no reaction to it.
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I stopped the yogurt for 3 days now from a bloating has gone way down, even after Normal meals.
I definitely ate much more than just a half cup of the yogurt per day, maybe that was too much it was a rather like three or four half cups per day……!
I also have been adding some fermented veggies (bought in organic food store)
I also started prebiotic fiber SYMBIOINTEST, plus some other fiber rich foods, Plus the mentioned three or four half cups of yogurt per day that still contained some inulin.
Probably all of that was just too much….
I am now more obeying ;-) and just taking the half cup of super sibo yogurt…
But personally I would like to add another half cup another time of the day with actimel l casei yogurt (no yakult here in France) or lactose free 24 hour SCD (Strepto thermophilus, L Bulgaricus & L acidophilus yogurt.
Would that be harmful?
Coco WEWE wrote: «…actimel l casei yogurt (no yakult here in France)…»
That’s Lactobacillus paracasei Danone®, an obviously proprietary strain, and I don’t quickly find any cites to possible benefits.
re: «Would that be harmful?»
I would have no way to guess. But I think you have enough to work with that you can make cautious challenges to the reactions, to see what’s doing what.
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I’ve never made L. Reuters yogurt. I have a food dryer that can maintain 100°. Is it possible to use this device to ferment lr yogurt?
Greg Trullinger wrote: «I have a food dryer that can maintain 100°. Is it possible to use this device to ferment lr yogurt?»
Possibly; the temp is fine for many of the recipes, including L.r. Concerns might include:
The fermenting yogurt is somewhat expansive and hyperbaric during ferment, so tightly-capped lids can be a problem. A slightly loose lid might work.
Pre-warming the substrate, before adding the starter, deals with the need to warm-start (and this is what I do, by the way, as my incubator is an old cooler with a 100w ceramic heat lamp).
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I have a question on frozen starters:
I have to do some traveling that will take between 20 and 24 hours from freezer to freezer. If I travel with frozen starter, even in a small thermobox T ice in the plane from time to time to which I could add ice in the plane from time to time, the starter will probably thaw a bit And then get frozen upon arrival, but not really to room temperature. Would that be acceptable to use this starter afterwards, Or is it better to start from the probiotic tablets?
Coco WEWE wrote: «I have to do some traveling that will take between 20 and 24 hours from freezer to freezer.»
See if you can source some dry ice (frozen CO₂) of suitable size for the carrier. This is what is used by probiotic sellers that have to ship chilled, where transit may take 2-3 days.
re: «…to which I could add ice in the plane from time to time, the starter will probably thaw a bit…»
If you can keep it below 40°F, it will likely make fine starter for the interval in mind.
Alternatively, you could just take some retail probiotic along.
No matter what you do, be mindful of airport X-ray exposure, or the bugs are likely to get zapped. Request hand inspection.
And when on an airplane, don’t eat what passes for food.
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Which other Bifidus besides infantis would be interesting to ferment ?
Can you use first batch for starting next batches?
Coco WEWE wrote: «…Should we then even for the Super Sibo Yogurt preferably ferment deparately or at least as you say use sperate starters and not use a starter from a prior batch of Super Sibo Yogurt?…»
It’s completely optional, and just happens to be what I do, largely as a result of what I had on hand when the SIBO blend recipe arrived.
Dr. Davis is satisfied with starting from a blend of the retail probiotics, and then using the generational method for 8-10 cycles.
re: «…culture a Yogurt with Megaspore…»
Is that ⎆this product?
No strains are specified for most of them, and that matters. The HUnn strains are proprietary, but do have some published science it appears, although it make be brand-sponsored research.
Two Inner Circle members have made yogurt with it, with different presentations, and no effects yet reported.
re: «…I would fear that those 3 species would produce bacteriocins against each other…»
Well, brewing any blend of bacteria raises the questions of:
🌡🧫🥄⌛ what temp, substrate, extender & time,
⚖ species:species or strain:strain growth rates over generations (or even a batch),
without even bringing in the
☣ bacteriocin consideration.
But if it makes a tolerable yogurt, and you get benefits, then you get benefits.
re: «Which other Bifidus besides infantis would be interesting to ferment ?
Can you use first batch for starting next batches?»
I have no speculations on that, nor have I tried going beyond the current ten program recipes yet (other than doing Gastrus®+Yakult® as a blend). And whenever I do try something new, as a matter of personal habit, I save most of the initial batch as ice cubes for future starter use.
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Yes, it is this megaspore product.
So in conclusion we have to try and see if we get benefits from it or not.
The idea behind the Megaspro product is that it produces bactericin Depending on what undesirable microbes it finds in the gut, so it has a policing role, To throw out the bad guys.
But as far as I understand, the same goes for doctor Davis’s L Gasseri and Bacillus coagulans yogurts, or the combined supersibo yogurt, So I will probably rather give that a try first
If you ferment a broad spectrum probiotic, wouldn’t that make the different species compete each other out, maybe even make them produce bacteriocins?
Wouuldn’t it be better to cultivate them seperately and mix them together when eating?
Or is there no crowing out when cultivating broad spectrum probiotics like this one here: https://www.iherb.com/pr/california-gold-nutrition-lactobif-probiotics-30-billion-cfu-60-veggie-capsules/64009?rec=home
Coco WEWE wrote: «If you ferment a broad spectrum probiotic, wouldn’t that make the different species compete each other out…»
That may not even be the only potential problem. The species:strains may have materially different optimal temperature and substrate requirements. If the blend contains any yeasts, they will ferment to alcohol, possibly killing off the bacteria.
re: «…maybe even make them produce bacteriocins?»
That too; which may be part of why Dr. Davis suggests not doing more than 8-10 generations of the SIBO blend.
re: «Wouuldn’t it be better to cultivate them seperately and mix them together when eating?»
That would be ideal (when you can source the individual strains), although I’m personally content with just using separate saved starters each time, and brewing as a blend.
Then, on to that example blend:
re: “30 Billion CFU…”
CFUs per species not specified.
re: “30 Billion CFU composed of the following strains:”
That list does not drill down to any strains, and health benefits can vary dramatically by strain with some of them.
re (label): “… Clinically Researched Probiotic Strains²”
No cites are found in a glance at the CGN product page. The² is a footnote to their potency statement.
So, not enough info to give you any sort of opinion.
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Very interesting.
Should we then even for the Super Sibo Yogurt preferably ferment deparately or at least as you say use sperate starters and not use a starter from a prior batch of Super Sibo Yogurt?
By the way this answers what would have been my next question: If it would be possible to culture a Yogurt with Megaspore which contains 3 different strains of Spore forming bacillus species , but after your answer I would fear that those 3 species would produce bacteriocins against each other
I have just another question that pops into my mind:
having sibo and Candidiosis, should we start with supersibo yogurt or should we start with a broad spectrum probiotic, maybe culture that into a yogurt and after some time do the supersibo yogurt?
Coco WEWE wrote: «…it’s not Symbioflor, but Symbiointest…»
SYMBIOINTEST®
⚠ Resistant starch derived from maize (50 %)
So it’s mostly corn-derived RS (IMO?), but there’s no declaration of non-GMO or organic, and although “gluten-free”, it may not be zein-free (a gluten analog).
⚠ Isomaltulose (a source of glucose and fructose)
This (aka Palatinose™) is not really a MAC (prebiotic). It’s a disaccharide carbohydrate composed of glucose and fructose. The glycemic index is 55. Compare this to a GI of zero for all the program-endorsed sweeteners (except xylitol, which is a mere 7).
☑ Glucomannan
This (aka konjac) is a true MAC. I include it periodically in my MAC rotation, but at low amounts, because it’s an over-enthusiastic thickener.
⚠ Release agent (silicon dioxide)
If you make your own MAC mixes, you can both save money and avoid SiO₂ flow agent (E 551). The EU is presently re-evaluating the food safety of powdered sand.
🙄 Biotin
Why is Vitamin B₇ in there, and how much? It’s not a MAC. And depending on the {unstated} dose, it might be important to discontinue intake 3-4 days before certain labs {esp. thyroid}.
re: «…having sibo and Candidiosis, should we start with supersibo yogurt…»
Candida is a question beyond what the blog format can address (and beyond my experience). The ⎆Inner Circle site has a developing Advanced Topic that has some strategies.
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Can you ferment vegetables by adding L Reuteri as a starter culture?
Would you then still use salt brine?
How about fermenting fruits with L Reuteri?
Coco WEWE wrote: «I think I read in the Super Gut or undoctored book that doctor Davis recommends to consume more prebiotics in general to boost desirable gut flora.»
That’s correct: work up to 20g mixed & varied daily. But there’s no specific advice on timing of prebiotic (MAC) intake relative to probiotics or live-culture fermented foods.
re: «There are some prebiotic products on the market like Symbioflor…»
Symbioflor® is a probiotic, and not a prebiotic. Symbioflor®1 is Enterococcus faecalis DSM 16440. Symbioflor®2 is also an E. coli, but I can’t figure out which strain, or what else is in the product. In any case, I have no opinion on them.
re: «Can you ferment vegetables by adding L Reuteri as a starter culture? Would you then still use salt brine? How about fermenting fruits with L Reuteri?»
See: ⎆Fermenting with hummus, salsa, fruit purees and other foods
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<<>>
Ok, got it: Yes eat more prebiotics in general while alternating the yogurts, mostly doing LR Yogurt. But not necessarily eat prebiotics at same time as eating the yogurts.
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You are right, it’s not Symbioflor, but Symbiointest I have as prebiotic.
Ingredients
1 stick of 10 g powder contains:
Resistant starch derived from maize (50 %)
Isomaltulose (a source of glucose and fructose)
Glucomannan
Release agent (silicon dioxide)
Biotin
Additionally, SYMBIOINTEST® is:
lactose-free
gluten-free
vegetarian
vegan
I would love to know how long this yogurt lasts in refrigeration…?
Felicia Stanley wrote: «I would love to know how long this yogurt lasts in refrigeration…?»
At completion of the ferment, presuming the lids are on loosely during the ferment, I would just tighten & label them. I’d expect 30 days (one month) of fridge shelf life. I brew in a larger pot, then transfer to 12 fl.oz. Ball® jars, filled right up to the cap to eliminate an air gap.
Once opened, I expect 2 weeks of shelf life, given nominal stewardship:
☑ bottle out of fridge only long enough to get portion
☑ clean utensil(s) every time
☑ re-cap bottle promptly
☑ mind sources of iffy airflow while open (humidifiers, sneezes, etc.)
For use as starter, the yogurts can be frozen indefinitely. I use ice cube trays, then bagged & labeled.
You can also freeze the yogurt for later consumption, but it wrecks the consistency.
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Hello
To make yogurt with L.Rhamnosus GG, what substrate and temperature do you recommend??
Thanks
Jorge Martinez wrote: «To make yogurt with L.Rhamnosus GG, what substrate and temperature do you recommend??»
There isn’t a formal program recipe that I know of.
Dr. Davis reports that the peak reproductive temperature is 104°F(40°C).
Inner Circle members report using the normal dairy, and inulin and/or acacia fiber as the MAC extender.
If using the ⎆Culturelle® Digestive Daily Probiotic Capsules, one 10B CFU capsule per quart/litre might suffice for starter on the first batch.
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