We ferment foods for a variety of health reasons. We ferment foods like sauerkraut, kimchi, and kefir because the process of room temperature fermentation causes bacterial species such as Leuconostoc mesenteroides, Pediococcus pentosaceus, and Weisella species to proliferate and, upon ingestion, pass through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract and into the toilet, (usually) not taking up residence in any part of the GI tract. But in their passage through the 30-some feet of GI tract, these fermenting species somehow provoke the proliferation of bacterial species that do take up residence and provide numerous health benefits, many mediated via production of the fatty acid, butyric acid. We also ferment microbes that proliferate at human body temperature and play other significant roles in health. These are species such as Lactobacillus reuteri, Lactobacillus gasseri, and Bifidobacterium infantis. So our fermentation efforts fall into two broad categories: microbes that ferment at room temperature and microbes that ferment at human (mammalian) body temperature. Recognizing this distinction will help you better navigate the world of food fermentation and health. There are exceptions such as Lactobacillus plantarum that is so adaptable that it will ferment at either temperature range. But, in general, bearing the above distinction in mind can be very helpful.
But some people still encounter difficulties or uncertainties when they ferment foods at either end of the temperature spectrum. So here are some Frequent-Asked Questions (FAQs) that you may find helpful to help you succeed in navigating this hugely important aspect of health.
Q: If I ferment veggies like cucumbers or radishes, do I need a starter culture?
A: No, as you can rely on the microbes normally resident on the surface of vegetables and fruit, though present at low counts. The vegetables and fruit will need to be organic and not covered by waxes or other coatings. Because of the low microbial counts, relying on such resident microbes means that fermentation will generally require weeks to ferment. By adding a starter culture, you can abbreviate the process to a few days (though it varies depending on the mix of veggies and fruits and their sugar and fiber content). You can purchase a commercial starter culture or you can just use, for instance, the brine from a commercially-fermented food like sauerkraut or pickles. So you do not need a starer culture, but it can significantly accelerate the process of fermentation for you.
Q: Do vegetables or fruit need to be sliced to ferment?
A: No, but you will experience greater release of nutrients and higher bacterial counts if, for instance, you slice or chop cucumbers or onions, exposing greater surface area for fermentation.
Q: Can fermented foods alone serve as a source of probiotics?
A: Probably not. As explained in the opening comments, consuming fermented foods results in significant changes in the overall composition of the GI microbiome. But fermented foods alone likely do not fully restore all microbes lost due to factors such as exposure to antibiotics. We therefore purposefully and specifically restore important species such as L. reuteri and L. gasseri in our yogurt projects.
Q: My first attempt at making L. reuteri yogurt yielded a lot of separation into curds (solids) and whey (liquid). What did I do wrong?
A: Nothing. We call this “the first batch effect,” i.e., the tendency to separate when “yogurt” is first made from a probiotic capsule or starter culture. Making subsequent batches from a prior batch tends to yield a more uniform, thicker end-result? We don’t know why this happens, but one way to manage this effect is to make a smaller first batch in case you do not want to consume it, then use a bit of this first batch to make a larger second batch.
Q: I’ve been having good results with my yogurts. But one batch turned out awful: it smelled rotten and was inedible. What happened?
A: The most common cause is contamination with another organism. In this case, discard and start from scratch, i.e., start with a known probiotic or starter culture. Also, be sure that the heating device you are using is delivering your desired temperature, as these devices can occasionally fail. If neither of these solve the problem, consider a new source of prebiotic fiber because the fiber may contain a contaminant.
Q: Why do you say this isn’t “yogurt”?
Many years ago, the FDA issued regulations that defined what can be called “yogurt.” Among the requirements: Anything called yogurt must be fermented with Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus, two microbes used in traditional fermentation of yogurt. Other microbes can be added but the two traditional species must be included. In this age of growing appreciate of fermenting microbes, this regulations is clearly outdated and arbitrary—but it still stands. So we cannot call our yogurts “yogurt” in the strict regulatory sense. Provided we are not selling it, of course, we can call it anything we like, but it remains that, in the conventional use of the word, it is not yogurt.
Q: Can I ferment more than one species of bacteria together?
A: Yes, absolutely. But there are some issues you should know about. If you are trying to achieve the highest number of microbes of a specific species, then a single species is the way to go. If you co-ferment more than one species, you will experience a reduced number of each microbe. If, for instance, you want the maximum rise in oxytocin possible in order to generate love and empathy or sleep augmenting effects and you obtain this by fermenting L. reuteri alone but fail to experience it when fermenting with three other species, you know that you’ve reduced the number of L. reuteri too far. I liken our yogurts to a backyard garden in springtime: If you plant only tomatoes, you will have lots of tomatoes at the end of the season. But what if you plant eggplant, zucchini, squash and tomatoes—how many tomatoes will you have at the end of the season? Far fewer, of course. Another issue to be aware of when fermenting more than one species is that some species can, over time and several batches, come to dominate, changing the relative proportions of each species. If the final composition of the end product matters to you, then consider starting from scratch every several batches.
Q: How necessary is the addition of a prebiotic fiber like inulin?
A: It is helpful but not essential. When we’ve made L. reuteri yogurt, for instance, without prebiotic fiber, the end result is not as thick and microbial counts are lower. If you do choose to include prebiotic fiber and you add too much, don’t worry: It just means that any residual prebiotic fiber will remain available to you when you consume the yogurt.
Q: How do we know the final result is really L. reuteri (or whatever other species you are fermenting)?
A: Think of it this way: If you plant tomato seeds in your garden, should you expect cucumbers? No, of course not. Species cannot just morph into other species. Such fermentation efforts have been conducted millions of times in laboratories and in fermenting facilities. Unless you obtain the occasional contamination (e.g., poorly-cleaned utensils previously used to make a spore-forming species like Bacillus subtilis, or you introduced another microbe from a contaminated batch of inulin), if you start with L. reuteri, you end up with L. reuteri. In general, bacteria that ferment as yogurt are not airborne and do not contaminate. Fungi and mold can, however, but that will be obvious as pink, red, green, or black discoloration that can be scraped off and discarded and the yogurt will be perfectly fine.
Q: Can we expect similar results when consuming store-bought yogurts?
A: No, not even close. Commercially produced yogurts employ microbes with minimal benefits (L. bulgaricus, S. thermophilus), low counts of microbes because of the short fermentation time, contain thickening agents like gellan gum and xanthan gum since fermentation is incomplete, often use low- or non-fat dairy, and have added sugars, high-fructose corn syrup and other undesirable additives. You cannot expect effects such as small intestinal colonization, bacteriocin production, oxytocin provocation, or reduction in endotoxemia. The differences between the yogurts we make with specific choice of bacterial species, prolonged fermentation, and addition of prebiotic fiber yield something that is completely different from what you find in the supermarket refrigerator.
Eating the Wheat Belly way is rich, varied, and delicious! Get some additional inspiration for wheat/grain-free dinners with these recipes.
This will also sign you up for the Wheat Belly newsletter featuring additional, delicious recipes and the latest information about new developments in the Wheat Belly lifestyle! Enter your name and email to get started! 
Hello,
Please tell me how to store the evivo infantis sachets correctly? Can I put them in the freezer? They are so expensive and I don’t want the bacteria to die.
2.When we make a new batch of evivo yogurt, is sugar/potato starch added every time?
Thank you very much.
Daniela Martin wrote: «Please tell me how to store the evivo infantis sachets correctly?»
They are bacteria, so they can be refrigerated to extend shelf life, or frozen to extend it almost indefinitely.
If you save some as ice cubes from a successful batch (the saved🧊starter method), those will keep you in high-CFU starter for some time.
re: «2.When we make a new batch of evivo yogurt, is sugar/potato starch added every time?»
The prebiotic is added every time, as its function isn’t related to first-batch considerations.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hey Bob, Do you know the carb count for 1/2 cup serving for the basic L. reuteri yogurt for this recipe?
Anthony Cason wrote: «Do you know the carb count for ½ cup serving for the basic L. reuteri yogurt for this recipe?»
My guesses haven’t change over the last six years. See this comment then.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Thanks Bob. We are so fortunate to have you to graciously help us. God Bless
Question about CFU’s -vs- # of Microbes… Are these terms equivalent? Or, am I doing my math wrong?
12 Microbe doublings ( 36hrs / (3hrs/doubling) ) = 2^12th = 4096 multiplier.
Therefore, if I start a new batch of L.Reuteri with a 10 Billion Microbe (or CFU) capsule per quart of of yogurt, then that means I should end up with 40,960 Billion Microbes (or CFUs) per quart of L.Reuteri yogurt.
With 8 servings/quart (4oz serving [1/2cup]), this yields 40960/8 = 5120 Billion Microbes (or CFUs) per serving. That is A LOT more than the 300 Billion per serving that I hear/read about.
Can someone (Bob?) please clarify? Thanks and God bless!!
Darrell Harrison wrote: «Question about CFU’s -vs- # of Microbes… Are these terms equivalent? Or, am I doing my math wrong?»
CFUs is Colony Forming Units, implying live microbes. When you see other terms used, such as AFU (Active Fluorescent Units), they might be dead. One product label I lately examined for a forum member just said “Cells”, which I took to also mean either dead or inactivated.
re: «12 Microbe doublings ( 36hrs / (3hrs/doubling) ) = 2^12th = 4096 multiplier.»
That math seems correct, but the reality is likely different. The substrate can only support some maximum population. The textbook doubling rate only applies until that population density is approached, as which point the rate tapers off and the total population flat-lines until both the lactose & the MAC are exhausted (which probably requires 60 hours or more).
Also, not all of the yogurt species are 3-hour doublers. B. subtilis is a 2-hour doubler, which complicates blends.
re: «That is A LOT more than the 300 Billion per serving that I hear/read about.»
As I understand it, the 300B is based on actual flow cytometry measurements, and not algorithmic model projections.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Are L.Reuteri and/or L.Gasseri sensitive to alcohol? I ask because I like to put a TBSP of Vanilla extract in my daily servings of “yogurt”, and I just noticed that my Vanilla extract has 33% alcohol. Will this kill my Reuteri and/or Gasseri Microbes?
Darrell Harrison wrote: «…I like to put a TBSP of Vanilla extract…»
Tablespoon (tbsp) or teaspoon (tsp)?
A tbsp is a lot of extract.
re: «Will this kill my Reuteri and/or Gasseri Microbes?»
If a tbsp, that’s a full tsp of alcohol, and strikes me as a possible problem.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Thanks Bob. I should say that is one TBSP for 8oz of yogurt (1/2cup LR + 1/2cup LG mixed together in the same bowl). Yes, it is a lot, but I like vanilla, and it really doesn’t taste very strong, probably due to the tartness of the LG and LR.
Can you check with Dr. Davis about the effect of alcohol on LG and LR “yogurts”?
Many thanks and God Bless!!
Hey Bob I’m sure you mentioned this somewhere before, but using one capsule of Oxiceutics™ MyReuteri™ and inulin and organic half & half at 36 hrs low temp in yogurt maker, how many CFUs are estimated to be obtained per 1/2 portion of made yogurt?
Anthony Cason wrote: «…one capsule of Oxiceutics™ MyReuteri™ and inulin and organic half & half at 36 hrs low temp in yogurt maker, how many CFUs are estimated to be obtained per 1/2 portion of made yogurt?»
If ½ portion is ¼ cup, 150B or more CFUs would be my estimate. It could be a lot higher.
You didn’t specify whether the MyReuteri™ capsule was 10, 20 or 50B, but my view is that this would only affect how quickly the batch gets to maximum CFUs.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I’m sorry it is the 10B. Thanks
If I want to make a double batch do I just add the recommended ingredients x2?
Anthony Cason wrote: «If I want to make a double batch do I just add the recommended ingredients x2?»
Use the same temp & time, but the ingredients scale linearly, up & down.
On the high side, I’ve never tried making more than one gallon, nor a batch deeper than 8in/20cm.
On the low side, don’t use less than 2B CFUs of starter.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Thanks Bob planning on making 2 qts.
I plan to add Bacillus subtilis HU58 to my other fermented dairy (L. Reuteri and L. Gasseri) as advised for a SIBO protocol. As suggested by the doc, I selected the Microbiome Labs product, but see that there are five different strains in the ingredients list and Bacillus subtilis is the second ingredient. Two questions: I’m wondering if I found the correct product (Microbiome Labs MegaSporeBiotic Probiotics) and 2) How do I make a batch of fermented dairy using the capsules? Are there a certain number to use? I know the process, just not how to use the encapsulated ‘stuff’. Many thanks!
Scout Ferrel wrote: «I’m wondering if I found the correct product (Microbiome Labs MegaSporeBiotic Probiotics)…»
You did not get the correct product.
The product you want is just HU58.
Now, ML doesn’t sell direct to the public, so if you are in the US, you can get it at Pure Formulas.
re: «…2) How do I make a batch of fermented dairy using the capsules?»
While awaiting the correct product, do you want to make HU58 alone {first}, or in the new SIBO blend? The recipe is different for each scenario.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hello, Bob; and thanks for your response.
The link provided took me to the wrong product; but I finally looked up their other products and got squared away. It might be worth revising that link.
I’m already fermenting L. gasseri and L. reuteri separately, and plan to continue separate ferments to maximize the culture counts.
Thanks again!
Scout Ferrel wrote: «The link provided took me to the wrong product…»
Which link was that? They both seem to be working for me.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I presume whatever link was provided in the blog.
The HU58 arrived. Can you advise on where I can obtain advice on how to utilize it for fermentation?
Thank you.
Scout Ferrel wrote: «The HU58 arrived. Can you advise on where I can obtain advice on how to utilize it for fermentation?»
I don’t think there is a published recipe other than on the Inner Circle at the moment, and this is subject to change: for one quart of H&H, 2 tbsp. inulin, 2 capsules HU58, 90-100°F🌡32-38°C, 24-30 hours.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Addendum – Yogurt Maker would have turned off at the right time, but I didn’t remove the yogurt until 30 min later. Don’t know how quickly the Ultimate Probiotic Yogurt Maker cools down.
Thanks for the recipe, Bob. That gives me a starting point.
Hi, I’m using 1.5 litres of milk rather than 1 litre, do I need to increase the amount of probiotic and inulin to compensate for the extra liquid in the yogurt recipe. Thanks
Jonathon Hourigan wrote: «…I’m using 1.5 litres of milk rather than 1 litre, do I need to increase the amount of probiotic and inulin to compensate for the extra liquid in the yogurt recipe.»
The recipes scale up and down linearly: substrate {dairy}, inulin, starter. Same time & temp.
But whether to scale the starter depends on what it is. If it’s a tablespoon or more of prior batch, that suffices for 2L or more. If it’s retail probiotic, it depends on which one. One capsule of MyReuteri™ or Osfortis® likely suffices for 2L. Gastrus® does not.
My personal practice is that the first batch is a modest one: one quart or liter. Most of it becomes starter ice🧊cubes for future batches.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I’m using the Ultimate Probiotic Yogurt Maker (2 bowls in a water bath). Using full-fat cow’s milk and inulin. If I want to make just one bowl of yogurt, I would use 1 Tbsp whey, 1 Tbsp inulin, 1 Tbsp milk for slurry, then 3 cups milk, right? Then would I have to change the time and temp?
Bob. My wife bought unsweetened almond milk and when I made my batch of yogurt I grabbed the almond milk by mistake and made yogurt. Still have about 19 hours left in the run. When done will it be eatable?
Anthony Cason wrote: «…bought unsweetened almond milk and when I made my batch of yogurt I grabbed the almond milk by mistake and made yogurt. Still have about 19 hours left in the run. When done will it be eatable?»
Highly doubtful—as this🤨review of one of those in 2018 concluded: “None of the commercial almondmilks would seem to be ideal for use in making yogurt. The unsweetened products lack sufficient substrate for the bacteria to metabolize, and the various preservatives may be expected to prevent bacterial growth (that’s what they’re there for, after all).”
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Ok Thank thanks Bob
I’ve just obtained 2 bottles of B. Subtilis from Microbiome labs. What is the optimum time and temperature for fermentation? I don’t see a recipe for it yet.
Thank you.
Laurel VanBlarcum wrote: «…B. Subtilis from Microbiome labs. What is the optimum time and temperature for fermentation? I don’t see a recipe for it yet.»
That would be the HU58 strain.
It did get a mention, although not by strain, in: Some crazy unique yogurts
I’ve made it at 100°F and 24hr, usual inulin.
What may or may not be the final recipe on the Inner Circle suggests 90-100°F and 24-30hr.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Yes, the HU58. The last thing I saw on B. Subtilis was the beginning of a sentence by Dr. Davis saying he’d just made a 36 hour batch but it’s easier to do the soda thing with some stuff from Aldi’s. It may be weird but it’s easier for me to do the yogurt thing and if the temp is 90 to 100 deg couldn’t I just add it to the Reuteri and the Gasseri? I’d like to make the most of each.
Thank you again.
Laurel VanBlarcum wrote: «…couldn’t I just add it to the Reuteri and the Gasseri?»
That’s being explored. I’ve done it, although due to the rapid doubling time of HU58™, I used starter ice🧊cubes (perhaps 90B CFU each) from initial MyReuteri™ and Yakult® batches, but just one (10B CFU) capsule of HU58, and 30 hours. It seemed to work, but I have no way of assessing relative CFUs.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Threw out 2 batches of L Gasseri. In both instances the yogurt lifted the top off the bowls half-way through fermentation time. A thin, rubbery and odd-looking ‘pancake’ was on the top of both jars. It lifted off easily in one piece. Underneath was a bowl full of whey. The second time I checked the temperature with an instant-read thermometer every few hours and temps remained between 108.1 and 110.8. Using the Ultimate, never had this happen before. Only one thing differed; I used Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch instead of Food For Life organic potato starch. Could that explain the problem?
I’ve always ‘burped’ the lids and did so this time as well. Could that cause pressure to build up and lift the lids off? It has never happened before.
Lynn Scott wrote: «…the yogurt lifted the top off the bowls…»
If you’ve run through the☑☒checklists, you’ve likely seen that I discourage both tight caps and filling vessels above 80%. These ferments appear to be both expansive and hyperbaric to some extent. In my own ferments, I’m using a partially-filled pot with a loose lid.
re: «I used Bob’s Red Mill Potato Starch instead of Food For Life organic potato starch. Could that explain the problem?»
Perhaps; suspicions have been raised about the sterility of retail prebiotics. While safe enough for direct consumption, problems might arise over a 36hr ferment.
For inulin, there are a couple of approaches that can be used, but for potato starch even re-pasteurization with the PS whisked in might not work, as it could cook the potato.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Just started another L. Gasseri batch with organic potato starch. I tried for 80 percent full but may be over a bit. Re the lids – I didn’t burp them this time which would leave room for some expansion. When you advise to use loose lids, should I use something other than the lids that came with the Ultimate or just rest them in a slightly off-kilter position? Would that risk contamination?
Lynn Scott wrote: «When you advise to use loose lids, should I use something other than the lids that came with the Ultimate or just rest them in a slightly off-kilter position? Would that risk contamination?»
I’m not familiar with that specific device. This is a water bath type yogurt maker? In addition to the vessel lids, does the device have a lid of its own?
If the water batch is using distilled or pre-boiled & recooled water, I’m not sure that the individual vessels need any lids at all. Perhaps some left-over slightly-oversize lids from other products, simply resting on top might suffice.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Yes, it’s a water bath type with two glass bowls and plastic (?) lids, and a large lid that fits over the whole unit. . I can’t send a pic but you can see it at Amazon – Ultimate Probiotic Yogurt Maker. It’s one Dr. Davis recommends. I use Mountain Valley bottled water. It comes with recipes, all of which I believe are Dr. Davis’s.
It’s about half-way through fermentation time now and one bowl looks like it’s alright. The other looks like it might have a chewy pancake on top and lots of whey underneath. The lids have not risen. As mentioned, I didn’t burp them so there is some room. How can the bowls yield different results? I’ve been checking the temp periodically and it’s fine.
Lynn Scott wrote: «How can the bowls yield different results?»
Are they being prepared individually, or merely filled from some other common container used to add the inulin & starter?
If individually, that opens opportunities for differences. Even if common-then-divided, there’s some chance for the concentrations of ingredients to vary.
There are other possibilities as well, but since I’ve only ever made big-pot common batches, I have no experience with jar gangs and what might go awry with them.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Is it possible that one one bowl got more of the probiotic than the other and I should have whisked the mixture more thoroughly? I usually just whisk the powder from one capsule, two tbsp. milk, two tbsp. potato starch, then add one cup milk and stir twice and add the rest. Am I supposed to whisk or stir every time I add a cup of milk?
Hello, I am about to start my very first batch of l-reiteri yogurt. I’ve ordered Oxiceutics My Reuteri 10B capsules but after reading more about the process, now I am wondering whether I need to use 20B capsule. Can you please verify. Can I use 2 x 10B capsules to start my first batch? Thank you
K M wrote: «Can I use 2 x 10B capsules to start my first batch?»
What is the batch size?
When I made the first quart from MyReuteri™, I used one capsule.
And here’s Dr. Davis using one capsule: How to make L reuteri yogurt
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I’ve tried 2 batches using Oxiceutics My Reuteri caps and inulin. Both had separation with lots of whey on the bottom. I thought maybe it was contaminated inulin so I tried potato starch instead for the next batch. With potato starch the same separation occurred. I really don’t know why. I’m ready to give this up. The Oxiceutics My Reuteri is not cheap and buying half and half is not either. I sterilized everything before fermenting so I am a loss on why this is happening. Any thoughts?
davetags wrote: «Any thoughts?»
If you haven’t seen the☑☒checklists, review them for any suspects.
My initial batch started with MyReuteri™ had very little whey fraction, and since then I’ve been using starter ice cubes from that batch, also with nil whey. So I know how it can work, but can’t make reliable guesses without much more data, hence the checklists.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I made my first batch, came out delicious but with lots of whey. Should I mix the whey back in or discard it.
thank you!
Laurie Lyford wrote: «…delicious but with lots of whey. Should I mix the whey back in or discard it.»
Consider saving it as ice🧊cubes.
Whey is not an ideal human food, but it’s a great starter.
When I don’t need any for starter, I discard it these days.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I have made the super mix using the three starter probiotics and fermenting them together. Because there is a compromise of temperatures doing it this way, what is the advantage over fermenting them separately and then mixing them together?
Terry Elston wrote: «Because there is a compromise of temperatures doing it this way, what is the advantage over fermenting them separately and then mixing them together?»
It’s mainly a matter of convenience. Making them separately might take 6 days, and would consume a lot of refrigerator space.
I split the difference, so to speak. I made each species as a separate yogurt, as they were identified, and kept ice🧊cubes from the initial batches. I now make blends using one-each slowly-thawed starter.
My impression is that the relative population growths have not been exhaustively studied, but it is already known that for the original recipe, the B. coagulans is less predictable than desired. So an alternative🥄recipe now uses B. subtilis, and so far, it does need to be made as a separate yogurt (HU58) or beverage (DE111).
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Two questions – 1. Will I get more L Reuteri if I use two capsules instead of one or would that necessitate doubling all the ingredients? 2. Fail on last L Reuteri batch – can I use the whey as a starter or will that just produce another bad batch? 3. I’m using the Ultimate Probiotic Yogurt Maker (two bowls in a water bath) If I want to make just one bowl of yogurt, I would use half the ingredients? Would I have to change the time and temp too?
Lynn Scott wrote: «1. Will I get more L Reuteri if I use two capsules instead of one or would that necessitate doubling all the ingredients?»
That will get you to typical max CFUs quicker, and might result in more CFUs, but probably not double. If you are already using an L.r. starter that is, say, 5 or 10B CFUs per at/L, it’s likely not necessary, but also not harmful.
re: «2. Fail on last L Reuteri batch – can I use the whey as a starter or will that just produce another bad batch?»
It depends on why it failed. I only save starter from what I consider to be successful☑batches.
re: «3. I’m using the Ultimate Probiotic Yogurt Maker (two bowls in a water bath) If I want to make just one bowl of yogurt, I would use half the ingredients? Would I have to change the time and temp too?»
The ingredients scale up and down linearly (but don’t go below 2B CFU starter). The time & temp are the same for any batch size.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hello, Does blending the yogurt in a blender to a smoothie kill the microbes?
Anthony Cason wrote: «Does blending the yogurt in a blender to a smoothie kill the microbes?»
The hazards are:
✂ maceration
⇋ shear stresses
🔥 blade tip heating (which is pretty impressive for the higher performing blenders — they can cook a soup from cold-start all by themselves, so the local heating at the blades is non-trivial).
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Ok sounds like it is not advised. Is hand stirring ok or should I simply eat as is?
Anthony Cason wrote: «Is hand stirring ok or should I simply eat as is?»
My daily smoothie process is to add all of the live-culture ingredients after the heavy blending, either hand-stirred or a couple of quick pulses.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hey Bob fantastic that’s a great idea thank you very much God bless
Hello Bob, I made 3 batches of the reuteri “yogurt” so far. The first had the separation, which I was expecting, the second yielded very little of the yogurt with most of it being the whey, and the third was uniform but very runny. I’m very confused as to what I’m doing wrong.
I followed the recipe from Dr Davis’ book – 950ml of organic milk (I combined full fat (4%) cows milk with double cream to mimic the half and half, as this is not available in the UK. I also warmed up the milk slightly in a pan before mixing it with the other ingredients, making sure it was below 41 degrees) plus 2 tablespoons of inulin, plus the crushed 10 tablets of the Bio Gaia brand. Then fermented it at 41 degrees Celcius for 36 hours. For the subsequent batches, I used 2 heaping tablespoons of the previous batches. Here is what I suspect might have gone wrong:
The temperature was too high, maybe it should have been around 38 (I checked the temperature a couple of times during the fermentation period as it was slightly lower than 41 degrees).
I did not add enough of the reuteri for the last 2 batches, maybe I should have added 4 tablespoons from previous batches.
The fat content in the milk was not high enough.
I’m wondering if I should start from scratch again, crushing the 10 tablets, and take it from there, but I don’t know how to ensure I end up with the thick and creamy consistency in the following batches.
Would you be able to point me in the right direction? Have I missed something or have I done something wrong?
Thank you!
Nicole Scarano wrote: «I also warmed up the milk slightly in a pan before mixing it with the other ingredients, making sure it was below 41 degrees) plus 2 tablespoons of inulin, plus the crushed 10 tablets of the Bio Gaia brand. Then fermented it at 41 degrees Celcius for 36 hours.»
41°C is only 105.8°F, and L. reuteri can tolerate 106°F (that’s the bargain temp of the SIBO blend). So unless your temperature measuring device is less accurate than most, 41°C, while not optimal, isn’t an obvious problem.
re: «For the subsequent batches, I used 2 heaping tablespoons of the previous batches.»
Unless the initial batch was major fail/contaminated, the subsequent batches are not expected to have that much separation. By the way, Gastrus® is now the least-favored starter, due to the low 200M CFUs per tablet, and the DSM 17938 strain being something of an also-ran. Oxiceutics™ MyReuteri™ (20B CFU/cap) tends to produce a nice batch on the first try (it did for me). If you have trouble sourcing that (and you might in the UK), BioGaia® Osfortis® (5B CFU/cap) is also suitable (and is just the ATCC PTA 6475 strain, seen as more effective for program purposes).
re: «Would you be able to point me in the right direction?»
In addition to the considerations that Dr. Davis raises in the blog post above, you can run through my☑☒checklists and see if any suspects arise.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Thank you for your feedback Bob!
It sounds like it was the CPU count that gave me those results.
I looked for the Osfortis® but now realised it has maltodextrin in it, which I’d rather avoid. So I’ve been looking for other brands and cannot find 1 that has the 6475 strain in the UK. Is it possible to buy MyReuteri from the UK by any chance? Or do you have any other brand recommendations I can look up?
Nicole
Nicole Scarano wrote: «I looked for the Osfortis® but now realised it has maltodextrin in it, which I’d rather avoid.»
It’s not a concern:
a. even for 10 tablets, it’s trivial amount of simple carb,
b. it’s probably going to be 100% metabolized during the ferment, and
a. any that isn’t will be diluted to nil across served portions of the batch.
re: «Is it possible to buy MyReuteri from the UK by any chance?»
They list a price of £36.00 GBP, do ship internationally per their FAQ page, but also caution that there are some places they can’t ship to, and provide an email address for inquiries. And that’s more than I know about that, which is why I also mentioned Osfortis (which is what I had been using for new L. reuteri starts until recently).
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I have been making L. Reuteri yogurt for a while and just recently added in L. Gasseri. I used some of my l.r. yogurt and a l.g capsule (Dr. Mercola). The result tasted fine, but has some light pink spots on the surface. Is this contamination? Should I worry about it?
Mary Zink wrote: «…but has some light pink spots on the surface. Is this contamination?»
Since you’re using existing L.r. yogurt as starter, color from some of the retail probiotics is ruled out (as is the BioThin®, which has none).
The top suspect would then be fungus, either from some opportunistic environmental source, or perhaps from the inulin or other MAC used.
You can scoop off the spot(s) and consume, but I wouldn’t use that batch as starter going forward.
I never see this phenomenon in my own dairy yogurts, probably because I routinely [re]pastuerize the dairy, with the inulin & whisk in the pot.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hi Rob,
I have made at least 5 batches of yogurt so far using a quart of half and half, and they have all separated. This was with L. Reuteri and Gasseri; I used 3 tbsp starter, 2tbsp potato starch and fermented at 106F (in sous vide) for 36 hours. A couple of times the curdles where quite hard/dense and the whey made -up 2/3 of the container. What am I doing wrong, am I doomed to eat curdled yogurt?
Thanks!
Elizabeta
Elizabeta Stacishin wrote: «I have made at least 5 batches of yogurt so far using a quart of half and half, and they have all separated.…»
Other than the first batch, what was the starter for #2…5?
◊ retail probiotic?
◊ material from prior batch?
◊ saved🧊starter from first batch?
In addition to that question, review these☑☒checklists for various possible factors.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hi Bob, I used L. Reuteri and Gasseri from Cutting Edge Cultures for my first yogurt, and then used 2 Tbsp of the yogurt from each subsequent batch as started for the next. Yesterday, I had a breakthrough… I cut the potato starch back by 50% and it worked– no curdling! It tastes good but pretty tangy. Another batch with 1 Tbsp inulin (also 50% of recommended prebiotic) worked as well, although with some slight separation throughout, not just in the bottom. I also did the coconut yogurt SIBO yogurt recipe with the recommended 2 Tbsp potato starch and Guar Gum and that one separated as well. So I do believe it has to do with too much prebiotics. Unfortunately, the Guar Gum caused severe abdominal bloating and discomfort within minutes of consumption and after doing some research, I found that that is not uncommon. Is there a substitute I can use or should I just eliminate the guar gum from the yogurt? I assume it would be runny but maybe that’s ok for smoothies. Thanks again for your help!
Elizabeta Stacishin wrote: «So I do believe it has to do with too much prebiotics.»
It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the case. In my view of brew metabolics, most of the MAC (prebiotics) is going to be left as is, because the bugs will have been focusing on their preferred chow (e.g. lactose), and only turn to the MAC in the last hours.
re: «Unfortunately, the Guar Gum caused severe abdominal bloating and discomfort within minutes of consumption…»
I haven’t been using guar, so have no direct insights, but a prompt (<90 min) reaction to any MAC is most likely revealing the presence of upper GI microbes that metabolize it, probably bugs you don’t want, i.e. SIBO. I bought some PHGG lately, and plan to sequence it as a minority component into my daily MAC mix for the smoothie, so may have useful experience in the near future.
re: «Is there a substitute I can use or should I just eliminate the guar gum from the yogurt?»
It’s not needed for a dairy yogurt, and serves for more than a MAC role in the non-dairy recipe. The current non-dairy recipe has a lot of prep steps largely intended to deliver less separation and a more yogurt-like consistency.
re: «I assume it would be runny but maybe that’s ok for smoothies.»
For hand-stirring into a smoothie, a stand-up yogurt structure isn’t really necessary. The goal of these ‘yogurts’ isn’t yogurt, after all, it’s CFU amplification. I’m also making fermented bouldardii and plantarumbeverages, which start and end as liquid. The smoothie doesn’t care.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hi Bob, Thanks for your prompt response.
Yes, I have SIBO which is why I’m eating SIBO yogurt –– so far without much improvement. But I’m pretty desperate having tried every herbal antimicrobial protocol known to man during the first 8 months of this year (with the guidance of a ND) followed by 18 days on the Elemental Diet. Four weeks ago I decided it was time to give up on the “kill” strategy and start a “rebuild” phase with the yogurts other ferments.
How are you culturing S. boulardii? I added a capsule to apple cider, it tastes horrible! I’m using it as mouthwash, trying to combat oral thrush…. If you have any information on probiotics for the oral microbiome, please let me know.
Thank you!
Elizabeta
Elizabeta Stacishin wrote: «How are you culturing S. boulardii?»
Here’s the blog recipe: Saccharomyces boulardii Sparkling Juices
If I were to make any this week, I see that pure apple cider is common in regional markets (no preservatives). But I’ve been using Simply® Apple, in the refrigerated section. It’s a CocaCola product, but it’s just pulpy apple juice, and available year-round.
I add a little cider to each of two 1L carafes (retired from carbonator use), empty one capsule each of Florastor® (Saccharomyces boulardii CNCM I-745®) into each, swirl, fill to the 1L line, and ferment at 90°F for 72hr. When complete, both are refrigerated until consumption is completed.
The Florastor line, alas, is now awash in product variants that might not work, due to extraneous ingredients. The broader market is further confounded by S. bouldardii products of uncertain or unstated strains.
I hand-stir a few tbsp. into the daily smoothie.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hi Bob, my L Gasseri batch ran 30 min too long at 109 degrees. Google says the microbes have been destroyed. Thought I’d check with you before throwing it out.
Lynn Scott wrote: «…my L Gasseri batch ran 30 min too long at 109 degrees. … Yogurt Maker would have turned off at the right time, but I didn’t remove the yogurt until 30 min later.»
Not a problem; even at full temp, running a yogurt to 133% of recipe time is usually immaterial. Power-off coast-down during the extra time is usually also not a problem.
re: «Google says the microbes have been destroyed.»
Destroyed by what?
They thrive at 109°F, but continue to reproduce at any lower temp, down to freezing. There might be some contamination risk at extended times near room temp, but even 133% of recipe time isn’t that. Exhausting substrate (lactose) could destroy them, but the MAC ingredient (usually inulin) protects you on that, out to at least 54hr in my experience.
I stopped using Google search many years ago. The AI rubbish it leads off with now is less reliable than ever.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I have noticed a huge increase in thirst since introducing yogurts ( LR & LG).
Is this common, and could you give more insight ?
I already drink adequate filtered water but seem to have up by at least 50%. Thanks team
Natalie Bondine wrote: «I have noticed a huge increase in thirst since introducing yogurts ( LR & LG). Is this common, and could you give more insight ?»
Presuming that it is thirst, and not just dry mouth, it is possible but not common.
When it came on on the Inner Circle forum earlier this year, Dr. Davis speculated that in the instance the most likely explanation was microbial die-off, specifically of Proteobacteria, leading to a reduction of insulin resistance, and resulting in diuresis.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
When your “yogurt” has the whey at the bottom, can you mix that with the creamy part to consume, or is it better to drain it? Thank you!
Nicole Scarano wrote: «When it comes to the fat percentage, I’m wondering how I can substitute the half and half, as we don’t have that in the UK.»
It may be known as “half cream” there, or you can just make your own, with a mix that’s half whole milk and half cream — no additives of course — preservatives and emulsifiers are too often encountered.
re: «Do you know what fat percentage is best for the milk? I was thinking of using organic pasteurised whole milk, which is about 3.5% fat, but I’m not sure if that has a high enough fat content.»
The fat content does not really affect the progress of the ferment, but is helpful for the texture. 3.5% for the milk side of the H&H suffices.
re: «When your “yogurt” has the whey at the bottom, can you mix that with the creamy part to consume, or is it better to drain it?»
That may only happen on batches started from retail probiotics. I don’t get much to drain on later batches.
While you can mix it in and consume it, my practice has been to drain it off and save as ice🧊cubes for future starter.
Also, that fraction of the ferment is largely whey, which tends to be insulin-provoking (and this effect varies between individuals). If weight loss is a goal, drain it off.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Does the fermentation break down the lactose? Also, what fat percentage (roughly) is ideal in the milk? Thank you.
Nicole Scarano wrote: «Does the fermentation break down the lactose?»
It’s the main thing that the microbes ferment. It’s expected to be driven to nil over a 36hr ferment. Part of the job of the inulin is to provide a less-preferred substrate for the microbes to turn to, so that there’s no mass die-off when the lactose is exhausted.
re: «Also, what fat percentage (roughly) is ideal in the milk?»
Here are my📊estimates for the final macros.
Program concerns with dairy, however, do not include any frets about fats.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Interesting, thank you!
When it comes to the fat percentage, I’m wondering how I can substitute the half and half, as we don’t have that in the UK. Do you know what fat percentage is best for the milk? I was thinking of using organic pasteurised whole milk, which is about 3.5% fat, but I’m not sure if that has a high enough fat content. Would this be good enough?
Hi
I started making SIBO yogurt a week ago– I love it! I love the taste, and I would like to eat 1 cup per day… what could be the problem with that?
Thanks!
Elizabeta
Elizabeta Stacishin wrote: «…I would like to eat 1 cup per day… what could be the problem with that?»
With a dairy yogurt base, the suggest intake cap is ½ cup per day. This would not apply to non-dairy variants, such as coconut. And the coconut base recipe exists mainly because a fraction of the population are completely mal-adapted to dairy—that’s not the reason for the cap.
Even if the herd is organic (no antibiotics or added growth hormones), the reasons for the cap are mainly:
🐄 Hormones (including estrogen):
Being the milk of a lactating mammal, any unwanted effects from these can’t really be mitigated other than via portion size.
🐄 Whey Protein:
Some of this is denatured during the ferment, but what’s left provokes insulin, and can cause weight loss stall, if not actual insulin resistance. It can be mitigated to some extent by straining the yogurt, and by re-pasteurizing and cooling pre-ferment.
🐄 Casein beta A1:
Most North American herds are this type, and it can be immunogenic. The A2 form is available, takes some effort and expense to source, and is rarely available as an otherwise unadulterated half&half.
🐄 Lactose:
This is a minor concern for a program ferment, as it’s expected to be nil. It might be a residual concern for anyone with a severe unresolved lactose intolerance.
But to be clear: this ½c cap is driven by dairy per se, and not anything to do with having fermented it. People continue to explore other fermentation substrates and I’m sort of expecting that the future will present a non-fussy recipe that has no ½ cup limit.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
Hi Bob, Thank you so much for your response, I appreciate it!
Elizabeta
After we let the yogurt ferment for 36 hours at 106 or 109, Do we put it straight into the fridge or do we eat it warm? Does eating it warm or cold provide different results? also, how long does it last in the fridge if we’re supposed to put it in the fridge? and lastly, if it only ferments for 24 hours is that OK? Is it just not as much quantity wise for the bacteria but still beneficial?
Jake T wrote: «After we let the yogurt ferment for 36 hours at 106 or 109, Do we put it straight into the fridge or do we eat it warm?»
First-portion timing is your choice. Since I normally hand-stir the daily yogurt into a smoothie, had I run out, I would use it warm. But so far, it all goes into the fridge.
Normally, I decant from the ferment pot into 16oz Ball jars, filled to the top, labelled, and refrigerated promptly; otherwise they continue to ferment.
re: «Does eating it warm or cold provide different results?»
I doubt it.
re: «…also, how long does it last in the fridge if we’re supposed to put it in the fridge?»
Perhaps a month unopened, and two weeks opened. Frozen, the shelf life is indefinite, but it wrecks the consistency.
re: «…if it only ferments for 24 hours is that OK? Is it just not as much quantity wise for the bacteria but still beneficial?»
With a 3-hour doubling time, you could end up with a mere 1-2% of the final CFUs that you’d get at 36hr.
But it depends on the species and strain. With a faster doubling species, like B.subtilis, 24hr may well be the target run time.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)
I made many batches of l-reiteri yogurt with no problem at all. And then all of a sudden the next batches were excessively tart and tasted odd. Perhaps my inulin powder has gotten contaminated. I want to try another batch using my new. Oxiceutics My Reuteri capsules. For 2 quarts of half-and-half, would two capsules and no prebiotic be acceptable??
Catherine Stater wrote: «I made many batches of l-reiteri yogurt with no problem at all.»
What is your starter regimen?
Retail? (each batch started from probiotic)
Generational? (each batch starts next)
Saved-starter (each batch started from frozen sample of an initial)
The possible unhappy surprise batch syndrome has different suspects for each. And if you’ve not seen them, some ☑☒checklists.
re: «Perhaps my inulin powder has gotten contaminated.»
That might be possible, but I’ve not personally seen it, probably due to my odd process, which includes [re]pasteurizing the dairy with the inulin in it.
You can improve your odds by freezing the inulin between batches. I also do this, but not for sterility, but because I’ve seen some of my MAC powders turn to goo in extended room temperature storage, perhaps due to being hygroscopic.
re: «For 2 quarts of half-and-half, would two capsules and no prebiotic be acceptable??»
Not really; the inulin, or other suitable MAC, is an essential element of the recipe.
________
Blog Associate (⎆click for details)